diff --git a/episodes/4_7.srt b/episodes/4_7.srt index 65504c6..628ff9c 100644 --- a/episodes/4_7.srt +++ b/episodes/4_7.srt @@ -1,58 +1,58 @@ 1 -00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:07,452 +00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:09,146 Bekah: Hello and welcome to -season four, episode seven of +Season 4, Episode 7 of the 2 -00:00:07,452 --> 00:00:09,146 -the - -3 00:00:09,147 --> 00:00:11,537 -Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast -4 +3 00:00:11,537 --> 00:00:13,927 that -5 +4 00:00:13,928 --> 00:00:17,437 features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee -6 +5 00:00:17,437 --> 00:00:18,757 is an intimate group of developers at all stages of -7 +6 00:00:18,757 --> 00:00:20,077 -their +their coding -8 +7 00:00:20,077 --> 00:00:22,987 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +journey. And they're here, on +this podcast, sharing their -9 +8 00:00:22,987 --> 00:00:24,502 stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share -10 +9 00:00:24,502 --> 00:00:26,017 it with -11 +10 00:00:26,018 --> 00:00:29,047 -you here with me today, is my -cohost Dan. +you. Here with me today is my +co-host, Dan. + +11 +00:00:31,096 --> 00:00:32,445 +Dan: Thanks, Bekah. Today, we +had a great time hanging out 12 -00:00:31,096 --> 00:00:33,795 -Dan: Thanks Bekah. Today, we had -a great time hanging out with +00:00:32,445 --> 00:00:33,794 +with 13 00:00:33,795 --> 00:00:37,426 @@ -61,8 +61,8 @@ self-taught developer and staff 14 00:00:37,426 --> 00:00:39,345 -author for the freeCodeCamp news -publication. Jessica talked +author for the freeCodeCamp News +Publication. Jessica talked 15 00:00:39,345 --> 00:00:41,264 @@ -76,7 +76,7 @@ writing, how to differentiate 17 00:00:44,115 --> 00:00:46,635 between constructive criticism -and negative feedback. And how +and negative feedback, and how 18 00:00:46,635 --> 00:00:49,155 @@ -90,42 +90,42 @@ your tech writing by eliminating 20 00:00:53,746 --> 00:00:57,886 assumptions about your audience. -And avoiding terms. Uh, like +And avoiding terms like, 21 00:00:58,305 --> 00:01:01,786 -"it's so easy" and "just do -this." Uh, she gave some tips, +"It's so easy," and, "just do +this!" She gave some tips 22 00:01:01,786 --> 00:01:04,695 like adding a prerequisites to -your posts or, uh, other +your posts or other resources 23 00:01:04,725 --> 00:01:10,635 -resources. Um, Basically, um, -Outlined her entire process for +and, basically, outlined her +entire process for 24 00:01:10,665 --> 00:01:13,846 all of her tech writing that she -does. And, uh, she does a lot of +does. And she does a lot of 25 00:01:13,846 --> 00:01:16,995 -it and it's all pretty awesome. -Um it was a really great +it. And it's all pretty awesome. +It was a really great 26 00:01:17,025 --> 00:01:19,906 -conversation and i know you were -going to enjoy it +conversation and I know you are +going to enjoy it. 27 00:01:20,287 --> 00:01:22,867 Bekah: We start every episode of -the podcast. Like we start every +the podcast like we start every 28 00:01:22,867 --> 00:01:25,987 @@ -134,7 +134,7 @@ ourselves with our name, where 29 00:01:25,987 --> 00:01:27,832 -we're from, what we do and a +we're from, what we do, and a random check-in question. We 30 @@ -144,7 +144,7 @@ hope 31 00:01:29,677 --> 00:01:40,533 you enjoy this episode. My name -is Bekah. I am a front end +is Bekah. I am a front-end 32 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:44,222 @@ -153,5483 +153,5908 @@ Ohio, and my favorite childhood 33 00:01:44,222 --> 00:01:45,722 -movie was Beauty and the Beast. +movie was "Beauty and the +Beast". 34 00:01:47,322 --> 00:01:51,343 Dan: That's a good one. Hi, my -name is Dan. I am a front end +name is Dan. I am a front-end 35 00:01:51,343 --> 00:01:56,143 developer from Cleveland, Ohio. -And, um, yeah, my, my favorite +And-- yeah, my- my favorite 36 -00:01:56,143 --> 00:01:59,173 -movie is Star Wars. Um, I think -if I had to pick one, it would, +00:01:56,143 --> 00:01:57,658 +movie was s- "Star Wars". I +think if I had to pick one, it 37 -00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:02,352 -it would be Return of the Jedi. -Um, yeah. As, as a child, I +00:01:57,658 --> 00:01:59,173 +would-- 38 -00:02:02,362 --> 00:02:06,692 -watched that. just, just a lot. -So it's easy choice for me. +00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:02,352 +it would be "Return of the +Jedi". Yeah, as- as a child, I 39 -00:02:06,798 --> 00:02:07,668 -Bekah: The solid choice. +00:02:02,362 --> 00:02:06,000 +watched that-- well, just- just +a lot [chuckles]. So it's 40 -00:02:08,897 --> 00:02:13,638 -Jessica: Sounds pretty good. Hi, -I am Jessica Wilkins and I am a +00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,798 +easy choice for me. 41 -00:02:13,638 --> 00:02:17,418 -musician learning how to code. I -am also a technical writer for +00:02:06,798 --> 00:02:07,668 +Bekah: It's a solid choice. 42 -00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:21,948 -freeCodeCamp News. my favorite -movie was actually the Toy Story +00:02:07,668 --> 00:02:08,897 +Dan: Yeah. 43 -00:02:21,948 --> 00:02:23,868 -movies. And so the original one, -but all four of them are +00:02:08,897 --> 00:02:11,267 +Jessica: Sounds pretty good. Hi, +I am Jessica Wilkins 44 -00:02:23,868 --> 00:02:25,788 -amazing. +00:02:11,267 --> 00:02:13,637 +and I am a 45 -00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:28,457 -Dan: Those are on big rotation -at our house with, with our +00:02:13,638 --> 00:02:17,418 +musician learning how to code. I +am also a technical writer for 46 -00:02:28,457 --> 00:02:29,922 -kids. +00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:19,683 +freeCodeCamp News. And my +favorite movie was actually the 47 -00:02:29,923 --> 00:02:32,103 -Uh, we also enjoy them. They're -solid. +00:02:19,683 --> 00:02:21,948 +"Toy Story" 48 -00:02:32,103 --> 00:02:35,818 -Jessica: I totally cried. When -Andy went to college, I bawled +00:02:21,948 --> 00:02:23,868 +movies. And so, the original +one-- but all four of them are 49 -00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:38,877 -like a little baby. I was like, -oh my gosh, he can't leave. And +00:02:23,868 --> 00:02:25,788 +amazing there. 50 -00:02:38,877 --> 00:02:42,568 -then he was giving his toys to -the little girl. I'm like, I +00:02:26,992 --> 00:02:28,457 +Dan: Nice. Those are on big +rotation at our house with- with 51 -00:02:42,568 --> 00:02:43,728 -mean, teary-eyed now. +00:02:28,457 --> 00:02:29,922 +our kids. 52 -00:02:43,728 --> 00:02:43,948 -Dan: Yes. +00:02:29,923 --> 00:02:32,103 +We also enjoy them. They're +[crosstalk] pretty solid. 53 -00:02:44,207 --> 00:02:44,518 -Jessica: ya know? +00:02:32,103 --> 00:02:35,818 +Jessica: I totally cried when +Andy went to college. I bawled 54 -00:02:44,927 --> 00:02:45,897 -Dan: I actually tried to -discourage that. That's I +00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:37,362 +like a little baby. I'm like, +"Oh, my gosh. He can't leave. 55 -00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:46,867 -started +00:02:37,362 --> 00:02:38,876 +And 56 -00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,048 -three. I tried to actually -discourage Toy Story 3 just +00:02:38,877 --> 00:02:42,000 +then he was giving his toys to +the little girl. I'm like- 57 -00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,298 -because it. It's very good. It's -about it is emotionally, uh, +00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:42,200 +Dan: Yeah. 58 -00:02:52,418 --> 00:02:52,867 -affecting +00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:42,700 +Jessica: -I mean- 59 -00:02:53,568 --> 00:02:53,747 -Jessica: Right, +00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:43,000 +Dan: I-- 60 -00:02:53,798 --> 00:02:54,397 -Dan: absolutely. +00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:43,728 +Jessica: -getting teary-eyed +down- 61 -00:02:54,812 --> 00:02:57,752 -Bekah: my oldest is 12 and he'll -look at me and be like, are you +00:02:43,728 --> 00:02:43,948 +Dan: Yes. 62 -00:02:57,752 --> 00:03:00,272 -crying? yes. +00:02:44,207 --> 00:02:44,518 +Jessica: -ya know? [Laughs] 63 -00:03:00,782 --> 00:03:02,902 -Jessica: It's very sad. We grew -up with Andy. +00:02:44,927 --> 00:02:45,897 +Dan: Yeah. I actually tried to +discourage that- that's 64 -00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:07,492 -Dan: Dude, I entertainment. Like -it takes on a whole new slant +00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:46,867 +"Toy Story 3". 65 -00:03:07,492 --> 00:03:10,402 -when, especially when you have -kids. Cause like I just find +00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,048 +I tried to actually discourage +"Toy Story 3" just 66 -00:03:10,402 --> 00:03:13,223 -myself being, you know, uh, -affected by this stuff in +00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,298 +because it-- it's very good. +It's-- well, it is emotionally 67 -00:03:13,223 --> 00:03:16,342 -different ways, you know? And -it's like, I don't it's matter. +00:02:52,418 --> 00:02:52,867 +affecting [chuckles]. 68 -00:03:16,372 --> 00:03:16,733 -It's cool. +00:02:53,568 --> 00:02:53,747 +Jessica: Right [laughs]. 69 -00:03:17,772 --> 00:03:23,117 -Bekah: It's been wild rereading -novels. I read. As like a young +00:02:53,798 --> 00:02:54,397 +Dan: Absolutely. 70 -00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:29,867 -adult to my kids. I, because I -always young adult fiction and I +00:02:54,812 --> 00:02:57,752 +Bekah: My- my oldest is 12, and +he'll look at me, and be like, 71 -00:03:29,867 --> 00:03:35,027 -always loved the young adult -character. Right. And now as a +00:02:57,752 --> 00:03:00,272 +"Are you crying?" "That's ..." 72 -00:03:35,027 --> 00:03:40,068 -parent, when I read it, I with -the parents and the novels and +00:03:00,782 --> 00:03:02,700 +Jessica: Like, it's very sad. We +grew up- 73 -00:03:40,068 --> 00:03:42,707 -I'm like, oh, they don't -understand what they're doing to +00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:02,500 +Bekah: It's very sad. 74 -00:03:42,707 --> 00:03:47,867 -their parents. So, yeah, it's -very different, lots of crying +00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:02,902 +Jessica: -with Andy [laughs]. 75 -00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:49,358 -and young adult novel reading. +00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:05,812 +Dan: Dude, I-- entertainment, +like, it takes on a whole new 76 -00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:53,043 -Dan: Yeah. at some point I -realized it with Calvin and +00:03:05,812 --> 00:03:07,491 +slant 77 -00:03:53,043 --> 00:03:56,342 -Hobbes. I was a big Calvin and -Hobbes fan Growing up and found +00:03:07,492 --> 00:03:10,402 +when-- especially when you have +kids cuz, like, I just find 78 -00:03:56,342 --> 00:03:59,492 -myself recently, you know, -identifying much more with +00:03:10,402 --> 00:03:13,223 +myself being, you know, affected +by this stuff in- in 79 -00:04:02,052 --> 00:04:02,962 -parents. +00:03:13,223 --> 00:03:16,342 +different ways, you know? And- +and it's like, I don't-- it's 80 -00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:05,372 -Bekah: Um, welcome. Jessica is -so great to have you here with +00:03:16,372 --> 00:03:16,733 +matter. It's cool. it's good +stuff. 81 -00:04:05,372 --> 00:04:06,872 -us +00:03:17,772 --> 00:03:23,117 +Bekah: It's been wild rereading +novels I read. As, like, a young 82 -00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:09,437 -today, because we did a lunch -and learn recently with Jessica +00:03:23,117 --> 00:03:26,492 +adult to my kids. I-- because I +always loved young adult fiction 83 -00:04:09,437 --> 00:04:12,002 -and +00:03:26,492 --> 00:03:29,867 +and I 84 -00:04:12,002 --> 00:04:13,412 -we'll put the link to that in -the show notes. And she did such +00:03:29,867 --> 00:03:35,027 +always loved the young adult +character, right? And now, as a 85 -00:04:13,412 --> 00:04:14,822 -a +00:03:35,027 --> 00:03:39,200 +parent, when I read it, I +identify with the parents and 86 +00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,068 +the novels, and + +87 +00:03:40,068 --> 00:03:42,707 +I'm like, "Oh, they don't +understand what they're doing to + +88 +00:03:42,707 --> 00:03:47,000 +their parents." [Jessica laughs] +So, yeah, it's very different. + +89 +00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,358 +Lots of crying in young adult +novel reading too. + +90 +00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:53,043 +Dan: Yeah. At some point, I +realized it with "Calvin and + +91 +00:03:53,043 --> 00:03:56,342 +Hobbes". I was a big "Calvin and +Hobbes" fan, growing up, and + +92 +00:03:56,342 --> 00:03:59,492 +found myself recently, you know, +identifying much more [laughs] + +93 +00:04:02,052 --> 00:04:02,962 +with the parents. Anyway-- + +94 +00:04:03,872 --> 00:04:06,872 +Bekah: Welcome, Jessica. It's so +great to have you here with us + +95 +00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:11,200 +today, especially because we did +a Lunch and Learn recently with + +96 +00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,002 +Jessica and + +97 +00:04:12,002 --> 00:04:14,822 +we'll put the link to that in +the show notes. And she did such + +98 00:04:14,823 --> 00:04:17,298 -good job about talking us +a good job about talking us through writing and writing -87 +99 00:04:17,298 --> 00:04:19,773 career. And -88 +100 00:04:19,802 --> 00:04:23,072 it is our monthly challenge this -month, every month we hold a +month. Every month, we hold a -89 +101 00:04:23,072 --> 00:04:26,492 -monthly challenge, in the -community is welcome to do it. +monthly challenge. Everybody in +the community is welcome to do -90 +102 00:04:26,492 --> 00:04:30,468 -And this is. The one-year +it. And this is the one-year anniversary of when we started -91 +103 00:04:30,468 --> 00:04:34,098 monthly challenges. And so it's one of my favorites. It's the -92 -00:04:34,098 --> 00:04:38,148 +104 +00:04:34,098 --> 00:04:36,123 blog writing challenge and it's -based off of NaNoWriMo national +based off of NaNoWriMo — -93 +105 +00:04:36,123 --> 00:04:38,148 +National + +106 00:04:38,148 --> 00:04:44,867 -novel writing month. And so +Novel Writing Month. And so, Jessica is just an amazing -94 +107 00:04:44,927 --> 00:04:51,017 writer. And we kicked off the -blogging challenge and our goal +blogging challenge. And our goal -95 +108 00:04:51,017 --> 00:04:55,757 was hit 50,000 words. That's -what, uh, as a community, that's +what's-- as a community. That's -96 -00:04:55,757 --> 00:04:57,062 +109 +00:04:55,757 --> 00:04:58,000 what it was last year. We didn't quite make it. We almost made -97 -00:04:57,062 --> 00:04:58,367 -it, +110 +00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,158 +it. But this year, in-- today is +Tuesday, November 9th. We have -98 -00:04:58,968 --> 00:05:03,348 -this year the, today is Tuesday, -November 9th. We have already +111 +00:05:01,158 --> 00:05:03,348 +already-- -99 +112 00:05:03,918 --> 00:05:06,408 -have we, where are we at? We're +have we-- where are we at? We're past halfway. -100 +113 00:05:06,947 --> 00:05:10,367 -Jessica: I think we're at -27,000, I think. Yeah. +Jessica: We're at 27,000, I +think? Yeah. -101 +114 00:05:10,908 --> 00:05:13,307 -Bekah: and largely in part due -to Jessica +Bekah: And largely, in part, due +to Jessica [laughs]-- -102 +115 00:05:13,408 --> 00:05:15,452 -Dan: Yep. Over well, over +Dan: Yep. Over-- well, over 28,000. Yeah. -103 +116 00:05:15,577 --> 00:05:16,208 -Jessica: Oh, cool. +Jessica: Oh, cool. Cool +[chuckles]. -104 +117 00:05:17,148 --> 00:05:18,857 -Bekah: So extra happy to have +Bekah: So, extra happy to have you here to talk about this -105 +118 00:05:18,857 --> 00:05:20,566 challenge -106 +119 00:05:20,567 --> 00:05:24,197 with us. But before we jump into that, we always like to get your -107 +120 00:05:24,197 --> 00:05:28,487 origin story and you have a awesome one. So tell us a little -108 +121 00:05:28,487 --> 00:05:32,517 bit about how you got to this -point your career. +point in your career. -109 -00:05:33,127 --> 00:05:36,603 +122 +00:05:33,127 --> 00:05:36,000 Jessica: Yeah. it's definitely -unique there. So I grew up in +unique there [laughs]. So, I -110 +123 +00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:36,603 +grew up in + +124 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:38,147 Southern California. I grew up in a town called Palm Springs, -111 +125 00:05:38,147 --> 00:05:39,691 which -112 +126 00:05:39,692 --> 00:05:42,212 -is like two hours south of Los -Angeles in California there. +is, like, two hours south of Los +Angeles in- in California there. -113 +127 00:05:42,212 --> 00:05:44,732 -And, - -114 -00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:47,297 -uh, grew up with a single mom -who was a teacher. And so. Uh, I +And I -115 -00:05:47,297 --> 00:05:49,801 -got +128 +00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:49,801 +grew up with a single mom who +was a teacher. And so, I got -116 +129 00:05:49,802 --> 00:05:54,213 -into a music pretty early at +into music pretty early at seven, and then just kind of -117 +130 00:05:54,213 --> 00:05:56,822 stuck with it. And it pretty -early on, I decided I'm going to +early on, I decided I'm gonna -118 +131 00:05:56,822 --> 00:06:00,632 -be a professional musician. Uh, -and so I started with piano and +be a professional musician. And +so, I started with piano, and -119 +132 00:06:00,632 --> 00:06:02,597 -then I at 11 started learning +then, I, at 11, started learning the oboe, which is like a -120 +133 00:06:02,597 --> 00:06:04,562 woodwind -121 +134 00:06:04,562 --> 00:06:08,642 -instrument. And I. At first -didn't really like it. Cause I +instrument. And I-- at first I +didn't really like it cuz I -122 +135 00:06:08,642 --> 00:06:09,752 -didn't sound that good at it, +didn't sound that good at it +[laughs]. -123 +136 00:06:10,577 --> 00:06:10,757 Dan: Yeah. -124 +137 00:06:10,923 --> 00:06:12,182 -Jessica: then I started to kind -of get into it. I was like, +Jessica: But then I started to +kinda get into it. I was like, -125 +138 00:06:12,182 --> 00:06:13,441 -okay, +"Okay, -126 +139 00:06:13,442 --> 00:06:15,723 -cool. So then I started doing -like festivals and private +cool." So then, I started doing, +like, festivals, and private -127 +140 00:06:15,723 --> 00:06:19,202 -lessons and all that fun stuff. -And I decided like 15, I'm going +lessons, and all that fun stuff. +And I decided, like, 15, I'm -128 -00:06:19,202 --> 00:06:21,482 -to go, try to go to music school -or conservatory. And go down +141 +00:06:19,202 --> 00:06:23,000 +gonna go-- try to go to music +school or conservatory. And go -129 -00:06:21,482 --> 00:06:23,762 -that +142 +00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:23,762 +down that -130 +143 00:06:23,762 --> 00:06:27,273 route and be a classical -professional musician. so, uh, +professional musician. And so, -131 +144 00:06:27,273 --> 00:06:31,142 -when I graduated from college or -from high school, I went on to +when I graduated from college-- +or from high school, I went on -132 +145 00:06:31,353 --> 00:06:33,348 -Eastman School of Music, which -is in Rochester, New York, uh, +to Eastman School of Music, +which is in Rochester, New York, -133 +146 00:06:33,348 --> 00:06:35,343 and -134 +147 00:06:35,343 --> 00:06:39,002 study there for four years on oboe performance. And then I -135 +148 00:06:39,033 --> 00:06:42,093 graduated and went on to a Master's at University of -136 +149 00:06:42,093 --> 00:06:44,683 Michigan, which is in Ann Arbor. -and then after that, I decided +And then after that, I decided -137 +150 00:06:44,683 --> 00:06:47,273 -to +to come back to -138 +151 00:06:47,312 --> 00:06:50,478 Southern California because the cold was just not agreeing with -139 +152 00:06:50,478 --> 00:06:52,353 me. So after six years of really -cold weather, I was like, no +cold weather, I was like, "No, -140 +153 00:06:52,353 --> 00:06:54,228 hard -141 +154 00:06:54,228 --> 00:06:58,517 pass. Let's go back to Southern -California. So I came back and +California." So, I came back and -142 +155 00:06:58,608 --> 00:07:00,828 decided that I wanted to start my own sheet music company and -143 -00:07:00,828 --> 00:07:03,048 -run +156 +00:07:00,828 --> 00:07:03,500 +run that- -144 -00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:08,362 -that. And then also, uh, perform -and freelance and so. Uh, from +157 +00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:03,500 +Dan: That's cool. -145 +158 +00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:08,362 +Jessica: -and then also perform +and freelance. And so, for-- + +159 00:07:08,362 --> 00:07:14,723 -2015 to 2020, uh, all I did was -perform and record and run my +from 2015 to 2020, all I did was +perform, and record, and run my -146 +160 00:07:14,723 --> 00:07:18,413 -sheet music company and teach. +sheet music company, and teach. And so I was kind of busy with -147 -00:07:18,413 --> 00:07:21,068 -all that fun stuff. And then -2020 happened and everything +161 +00:07:18,413 --> 00:07:22,200 +all that fun stuff. And then, +2020 happened [Jessica and Dan -148 -00:07:21,068 --> 00:07:23,723 +162 +00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:23,723 +chuckles] and everything changed. -149 -00:07:23,723 --> 00:07:28,642 -So for everybody, but me, it was -just okay, go home. And there's +163 +00:07:23,723 --> 00:07:28,200 +So-- for everybody. But for me, +it was just, "Okay, go home. And -150 +164 +00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:28,642 +there's + +165 00:07:28,642 --> 00:07:32,028 -no work for you. and I'm like -Great. So what am I supposed to +no work for you." And I'm like, +"Great. So what am I supposed to -151 -00:07:32,028 --> 00:07:36,317 -do now? So I just worked on the -business and try to keep that +166 +00:07:32,028 --> 00:07:35,500 +do now?" [Chuckles] So, I just +worked on the business and try -152 +167 +00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:36,317 +to keep that + +168 00:07:36,557 --> 00:07:38,612 going and afloat and changing -there, for a few months. But +there for a few months. But -153 +169 00:07:38,612 --> 00:07:40,667 then -154 +170 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:45,617 -in June of 2020, um, you know, -US was going through a lot with +in June of 2020, you know, US +was going through a lot with -155 -00:07:45,648 --> 00:07:50,377 +171 +00:07:45,648 --> 00:07:48,012 COVID and then race relations -with the George Floyd murder And +with the George Floyd murder. -156 +172 +00:07:48,012 --> 00:07:50,376 +And + +173 00:07:50,403 --> 00:07:54,093 -so a lot of people were talking +so, a lot of people were talking about diversity issues within -157 +174 00:07:54,093 --> 00:07:56,913 many industries, including myself, right? My industry with -158 +175 00:07:56,913 --> 00:07:58,547 the classical world of operas -and orchestras, cause there's a +and orchestras, cuz there's a -159 +176 00:07:58,547 --> 00:08:00,181 huge -160 -00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:02,282 -diversity problem, with, uh, -with black representation, - -161 -00:08:02,282 --> 00:08:04,382 -especially. +177 +00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:04,382 +diversity problem with black +representation, especially. -162 +178 00:08:04,382 --> 00:08:06,427 -And so people were asking me. -Yeah. Can you give me +And so, people were asking me +like, "Yo, can you give me -163 +179 00:08:06,427 --> 00:08:08,472 information -164 -00:08:08,473 --> 00:08:10,797 +180 +00:08:08,473 --> 00:08:09,635 about composers I can learn -about so we can start to change. +about so we can start to -165 +181 +00:08:09,635 --> 00:08:10,797 +change?" + +182 00:08:10,797 --> 00:08:13,121 And I -166 +183 00:08:13,122 --> 00:08:15,103 decided there should be a -website. Like there should just +website. Like, there should just -167 -00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:18,673 +184 +00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:16,888 be one place where people can -find all this stuff. I, I was +find all this stuff. And I- I -168 +185 +00:08:16,888 --> 00:08:18,673 +was + +186 00:08:18,673 --> 00:08:20,443 -like, well, maybe could build -it. I've never built anything. +like, "Well, maybe I could build +it." I've never built anything, -169 +187 00:08:20,443 --> 00:08:22,213 I've -170 -00:08:22,213 --> 00:08:23,878 -never coded before, but Hey, -we've got all this time, so - -171 -00:08:23,878 --> 00:08:25,543 -maybe +188 +00:08:22,213 --> 00:08:25,000 +never coded before, but hey, +we've got all this time. So -172 -00:08:25,543 --> 00:08:27,717 -we'll learn and see what +189 +00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,717 +maybe we'll learn and see what happens. So that's how I got -173 +190 00:08:27,717 --> 00:08:29,891 into -174 +191 00:08:30,043 --> 00:08:33,942 programming and been doing this for about a year and a half now. -175 -00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:37,137 -Yeah, so that's kind of my -origin story and how I got into, - -176 -00:08:37,137 --> 00:08:39,731 -where +192 +00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:39,300 +And-- yeah. So that's kind of my +origin story and how I got into -177 -00:08:39,732 --> 00:08:40,182 -I'm at now. +193 +00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:40,182 +where I'm at now. -178 +194 00:08:41,633 --> 00:08:44,023 -Bekah: awesome. Does that site -still exist out there? +Bekah: That's so awesome. Does +that site still exist out there? -179 +195 00:08:44,842 --> 00:08:46,987 -Jessica: So I created, um, +Jessica: Yes. So I created version one about six months -180 +196 00:08:46,987 --> 00:08:49,132 into -181 +197 00:08:49,133 --> 00:08:52,432 my learning and it's called the Black Excellence Music Project. -182 +198 00:08:52,913 --> 00:08:58,222 And I built that with HTML, CSS, -and Vanilla JavaScript. and then +and vanilla JavaScript. and then -183 +199 00:08:58,222 --> 00:09:02,898 I revisited it a few months ago, -um, over the summer of 2021 +over the summer of 2021 and -184 +200 00:09:03,768 --> 00:09:07,067 -create a version two, which was +created version two, which was built with React and Tailwind -185 -00:09:07,067 --> 00:09:11,597 -CSS, and has more artists and -more games and all of this fun - -186 -00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:15,378 -stuff. yeah, so this was always -like a passion project. And so I - -187 -00:09:15,378 --> 00:09:19,508 -got into tech I wanted to switch -careers. I thought initially in - -188 -00:09:19,508 --> 00:09:22,187 -June I was like, oh, this thing -will just blow over eventually. - -189 -00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:25,158 -And I go back to my old life and -yeah. Obviously not what - -190 -00:09:25,158 --> 00:09:29,957 -happened. I wildly miss, -understood how COVID works. I - -191 -00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:32,388 -totally thought this was just -going to be like a couple of - -192 -00:09:32,388 --> 00:09:36,918 -months and I was completely -wrong. So, but, and then I ended - -193 -00:09:36,918 --> 00:09:40,727 -up starting to get developer -work, uh, and that was kinda - -194 -00:09:40,758 --> 00:09:44,238 -cool. And then I started writing -for freeCodeCamp, which was also - -195 -00:09:44,238 --> 00:09:45,828 -kind of cool. and I was like, -well, maybe I could have a - -196 -00:09:45,828 --> 00:09:47,418 -career - -197 -00:09:47,418 --> 00:09:49,128 -there. So yeah. - -198 -00:09:49,648 --> 00:09:55,148 -Bekah: That is so awesome. So, -um, that project is an open - -199 -00:09:55,148 --> 00:09:56,018 -source project, right? - -200 -00:09:56,548 --> 00:10:00,268 -Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so -it's available on my personal - 201 -00:10:00,268 --> 00:10:03,148 -GitHub, but it's completely open -source. It's a, anybody could +00:09:07,067 --> 00:09:11,597 +CSS, and has more artists, and +more games, and all of this fun 202 -00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:05,698 -like in there and if they want -to contribute there, I'm pretty +00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:13,487 +stuff. And-- yeah, so this was +always like a passion project. 203 -00:10:05,698 --> 00:10:08,248 -open +00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:15,377 +And so I 204 -00:10:08,248 --> 00:10:09,957 -to that. So, yeah. +00:09:15,378 --> 00:09:17,443 +got into tech not because I +wanted to switch careers. I 205 -00:10:10,327 --> 00:10:12,847 -Bekah: Right. It is really -awesome. And again, those links +00:09:17,443 --> 00:09:19,508 +thought, initially, in June, 206 -00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:21,243 -will be in the show notes I just -think seem like. Uh, so driven +00:09:19,508 --> 00:09:22,187 +I was like, "Oh, this thing will +just blow over, eventually. 207 -00:10:21,243 --> 00:10:25,773 -and motivated from everything -that you've talked about your +00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:25,158 +And I go back to my old life." +And that's obviously not what 208 -00:10:25,982 --> 00:10:27,902 -career as a musician, you know, -at 15 years old, you decided +00:09:25,158 --> 00:09:29,000 +happened [laughs]. I wildly +misunderstood how, like, COVID 209 -00:10:27,902 --> 00:10:29,822 -that +00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:29,957 +works. I totally- 210 -00:10:29,822 --> 00:10:34,743 -you were going to do this thing, -and that's not an easy thing. So +00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:31,005 +Bekah: Same. 211 -00:10:34,743 --> 00:10:38,192 -you have this, um, I don't know, -Tenacity or, or something. How +00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,700 +Jessica: -thought this was just +gonna be- 212 -00:10:38,192 --> 00:10:42,722 -would you kind of describe that, -that that's allowed you to go +00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:32,388 +Dan: I-- everyone did. 213 -00:10:42,722 --> 00:10:45,373 -through these different things -and accomplish so much. +00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:33,500 +Jessica: -like a couple of +months there [laughs]. 214 -00:10:45,913 --> 00:10:50,253 -Jessica: I think that's in large -part to both my mom and my +00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:37,200 +And I was completely wrong. So-- +but-- and then I ended up-- 215 -00:10:50,253 --> 00:10:54,302 -grandmother. And so both of them -were single parents. And so one +00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,963 +yeah, I starting to get +developer work, and that was 216 -00:10:54,302 --> 00:10:56,522 -was by choice. my mom, uh, -worked as a teacher for many +00:09:38,963 --> 00:09:40,726 +kinda 217 -00:10:56,522 --> 00:10:58,742 -years and +00:09:40,758 --> 00:09:44,238 +cool. And then I started writing +for freeCodeCamp, which was also 218 -00:10:58,743 --> 00:11:01,442 -then in her forties decided that -she wanted to adopt and have a +00:09:44,238 --> 00:09:47,000 +kinda cool. So-- and I was like, +"Well, maybe I could have a 219 -00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:04,712 -child. Um, and so, uh, she had -me when she was like 44 or 45. +00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,128 +career there." So- [chuckles] +so, yeah. 220 -00:11:04,712 --> 00:11:07,982 -And +00:09:49,648 --> 00:09:55,148 +Bekah: That is so awesome. So, +that project is an open 221 -00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:12,452 -then with my grandmother, uh, -she was married, but it was +00:09:55,148 --> 00:09:56,018 +source project, right? 222 -00:11:12,452 --> 00:11:15,332 -unfortunately an abusive -situation. So she had to get out +00:09:56,548 --> 00:10:00,268 +Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so +it's available on my personal 223 -00:11:15,332 --> 00:11:19,263 -and get to safety and raise two -kids by herself and was also a +00:10:00,268 --> 00:10:03,148 +GitHub but it's completely open +source. It's a-- anybody could, 224 -00:11:19,263 --> 00:11:22,052 -teacher. but then went on to, -um, you know, own land in +00:10:03,148 --> 00:10:07,000 +like, dive in there and- and if +they, you know, wanna contribute 225 -00:11:22,052 --> 00:11:24,841 -certain +00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,957 +there, I'm- I'm pretty open to +that. So, yeah. 226 -00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:29,373 -parts of California and just be -fiercely independent. so I just +00:10:10,327 --> 00:10:12,847 +Bekah: That is really awesome. +And, again, those links will 227 -00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,952 -kind of picked up on that, where -if they decided they were going +00:10:12,847 --> 00:10:17,045 +be in the show notes. And I just +think you seem like I-- so 228 -00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:33,902 -to do something, they just went -for it. Growing up with that +00:10:17,045 --> 00:10:21,243 +driven 229 -00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:35,852 -type +00:10:21,243 --> 00:10:25,773 +and motivated from everything +that you've talked about. Your 230 -00:11:35,852 --> 00:11:37,307 -of mindset and energy, it's -like, well, I guess That's just +00:10:25,982 --> 00:10:27,902 +career as a musician, you know, +at 15 years old, you decided 231 -00:11:37,307 --> 00:11:38,762 -what we +00:10:27,902 --> 00:10:31,700 +that you were gonna do this +thing. 232 -00:11:38,763 --> 00:11:42,312 -do here. If you just want to go -do something. so when I +00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:34,743 +And it-- that's not an easy +thing! [Jessica chuckles] So 233 -00:11:42,513 --> 00:11:46,863 -discovered my love for operas -and orchestra and this weird, +00:10:34,743 --> 00:10:38,192 +you have this-- I don't know. +Tenacity or- or something. How 234 -00:11:46,863 --> 00:11:48,438 -beautiful instrument of the -oboe, I was like, I want to go +00:10:38,192 --> 00:10:40,457 +would you kind of describe that- +that drivenness that's allowed 235 -00:11:48,438 --> 00:11:50,013 -do that +00:10:40,457 --> 00:10:42,722 +you to go 236 -00:11:50,552 --> 00:11:54,633 -I want to go achieve that. And -so I just went for it definitely +00:10:42,722 --> 00:10:45,373 +through these different things +and accomplish so much. 237 -00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:56,943 -didn't think I was going to get -in to. The conservatory I was, +00:10:45,913 --> 00:10:50,253 +Jessica: I think that's in large +part to both my mom and my 238 -00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:59,253 -it +00:10:50,253 --> 00:10:54,302 +grandmother. And so both of them +were single parents. And so, one 239 -00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:04,173 -ended up working out thankfully, -but leading up to it cause I got +00:10:54,302 --> 00:10:58,742 +was by choice. My mom worked as +a teacher for many years. And 240 -00:12:04,383 --> 00:12:06,643 -four rejections and then the -last one was an exception into +00:10:58,743 --> 00:11:01,442 +then, in her 40s, decided that +she wanted to adopt and have a 241 -00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,903 -my +00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:07,982 +child. And so, she had me when +she was, like, 44 or 45. And 242 -00:12:08,903 --> 00:12:11,673 -dream schools. So at first I was -like, well maybe I'll just start +00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:12,452 +then, with my grandmother, she +was married, but it was 243 -00:12:11,673 --> 00:12:15,423 -going to college. I have four -rejections from other schools. +00:11:12,452 --> 00:11:13,892 +unfortunately an abusive +situation. So she had to get 244 -00:12:15,663 --> 00:12:19,232 -But then at the very end I was -accepted, uh, to Eastman. And +00:11:13,892 --> 00:11:15,332 +out, 245 -00:12:19,232 --> 00:12:21,423 -that was the last school I heard -back from. And I was like, okay, +00:11:15,332 --> 00:11:19,263 +and get to safety, and raise two +kids by herself, and was also a 246 -00:12:21,423 --> 00:12:23,702 -cool. I guess we're going. And -we're going to my dream school. +00:11:19,263 --> 00:11:24,841 +teacher. But then, went on to, +you know, own land in certain 247 -00:12:23,702 --> 00:12:24,633 -So that worked out. +00:11:24,842 --> 00:11:27,107 +parts of California and just be +fiercely independent. And so I 248 -00:12:26,368 --> 00:12:28,318 -Dan: awesome. Oh, um, the oboe -is an interesting choice. What, +00:11:27,107 --> 00:11:29,372 +just 249 -00:12:28,318 --> 00:12:30,268 -uh, +00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,952 +kinda picked up on that, where +if they decided they were gonna 250 -00:12:30,298 --> 00:12:33,057 -w w do you have any reason why, -like, what made you like lean +00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:34,500 +do something, they just went for +it. It's-- I just 251 -00:12:33,057 --> 00:12:35,427 -towards the oboe, I know from, -you know, I, I know it's very +00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,852 +growing up with that type 252 -00:12:35,427 --> 00:12:37,587 -hard to learn and all of that -stuff. I was just curious about +00:11:35,852 --> 00:11:38,500 +of mindset and energy. It's, +like-- well, I guess that's just 253 -00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:37,768 -that. +00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:39,700 +what we do here [laughs] 254 -00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:40,638 -Jessica: so I didn't actually -choose it. Um, +00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:42,312 +if you just wanna go do +something. So when I 255 -00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:41,388 -Dan: Sure. +00:11:42,513 --> 00:11:46,863 +discovered my love for operas, +and orchestra, and this weird, 256 -00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:44,282 -Jessica: I didn't choose it. -Yeah. um, I was learning piano +00:11:46,863 --> 00:11:48,438 +beautiful instrument of the +oboe, I was like, "I wanna go 257 -00:12:44,282 --> 00:12:46,217 -in +00:11:48,438 --> 00:11:50,013 +do that." And- and, "I wanna 258 -00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:50,052 -elementary school, and then I -tried to pick up trumpet. That +00:11:50,552 --> 00:11:54,633 +go achieve that." And so I just +went for it. And I- I definitely 259 -00:12:50,143 --> 00:12:52,993 -definitely was not the right fit -for me. I couldn't really make +00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:56,943 +didn't think I was gonna get +into the conservatory I was, 260 -00:12:52,993 --> 00:12:56,562 -any type of sounds, but I wanted -to be in band because all my +00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:59,253 +but it ended 261 -00:12:56,562 --> 00:13:00,913 -friends were in band and I loved -music. so I asked the, uh, band +00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:04,173 +up working out, thankfully, but +leading up to it cuz I got 262 -00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,102 -director at the middle school -and I told him, I said, Hey, I'm +00:12:04,383 --> 00:12:06,643 +four rejections and then the +last one was an acception into 263 -00:13:03,102 --> 00:13:06,263 -really passionate. I want to -learn something. his answer was, +00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,903 +[chuckles] my dream 264 -00:13:06,283 --> 00:13:10,182 -you should learn the oboe. And -I'm like, Okay. what is that? He +00:12:08,903 --> 00:12:11,673 +school. So at first, I was like, +"Well, maybe I'm just not 265 -00:13:10,182 --> 00:13:13,383 -was like here. And so he got out -and oboe and he got out of reed +00:12:11,673 --> 00:12:14,000 +going to college." [Laughs] +And-- cuz I have four rejections 266 -00:13:14,143 --> 00:13:16,355 -he put it together for me and -put it, he said, okay, this is. +00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,423 +from other schools. 267 -00:13:16,355 --> 00:13:18,567 -You +00:12:15,663 --> 00:12:19,232 +But then, at the very end, I was +accepted to Eastman. And 268 -00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:21,658 -know, blow and just how you make -an abasured. And I did that and +00:12:19,232 --> 00:12:21,423 +that was the last school I heard +back from. And I was like, 269 -00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,998 -it squeaked, he's like perfect. -You should be our new oboe +00:12:21,423 --> 00:12:22,500 +"Okay, cool. I guess we're +going. And we're going to my 270 -00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:28,158 -player. I was like, Okay, cool. -And I'm like 11 years old, so +00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,633 +dream school." So that worked +out. 271 -00:13:28,158 --> 00:13:30,242 -I've just game for anything. And -he probably totally planned +00:12:26,368 --> 00:12:29,300 +Dan: That's awesome. Oh, the +oboe is an interesting choice. 272 -00:13:30,242 --> 00:13:32,326 -that. +00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:32,000 +What-- wha- wha- [chuckles] do +you have any reason why-- like, 273 -00:13:32,327 --> 00:13:35,878 -Like, yes, we got another one -because oboe's so rare in +00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,500 +what made you, like, lean +towards the oboe? 274 -00:13:35,927 --> 00:13:41,057 -schools, along with like basoon. -So that's when he heard that I +00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,427 +I- I know from-- you know, I- I +know it's very 275 -00:13:41,057 --> 00:13:43,427 -was, I just wanted to join and -he's like, cool. Let's just talk +00:12:35,427 --> 00:12:37,587 +hard to learn and all of that +stuff. I was just curious about 276 -00:13:43,427 --> 00:13:47,408 -her into playing this thing. And -we're all taken care of, but I +00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:37,768 +that. 277 -00:13:47,418 --> 00:13:49,998 -guess I have to thank him for it -because I ended up falling in +00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:40,638 +Jessica: Yeah. So I didn't +actually choose it [laughs]. 278 -00:13:49,998 --> 00:13:50,957 -love with it. So. +00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:41,388 +Dan: [Laughs] Sure. What happens +to it then? 279 -00:13:51,727 --> 00:13:52,867 -Dan: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, -I imagine there was, there was +00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:44,700 +Jessica: My-- [laughs] I didn't +choose it. Yeah. So, I was 280 -00:13:52,867 --> 00:13:54,007 -no +00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,217 +learning piano in 281 -00:13:54,008 --> 00:13:55,508 -oboe player, you know, before he -started. +00:12:46,217 --> 00:12:48,134 +elementary school. And then I +tried to pick up trumpet but 282 -00:13:56,107 --> 00:13:57,832 -Jessica: Yeah, there was -actually just one, but then he +00:12:48,134 --> 00:12:50,051 +that 283 -00:13:57,832 --> 00:13:59,557 -was like, +00:12:50,143 --> 00:12:52,993 +definitely was not the right fit +for me. I couldn't really make 284 -00:13:59,557 --> 00:14:02,242 -we really need one other one. -And so it was easy to talk at 11 +00:12:52,993 --> 00:12:56,000 +any type of sounds and all. But +I wanted to be in band because 285 -00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:04,927 -year +00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:56,562 +all of my 286 -00:14:04,927 --> 00:14:07,148 -old, because at that age, you're -just like, I just want to do +00:12:56,562 --> 00:13:00,913 +friends were in band and I loved +music. And so I asked the band 287 -00:14:07,148 --> 00:14:09,908 -anything and you're not going to -like fight it there, so. +00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,102 +director at the middle school +and I told him, I said, "Hey, 288 -00:14:10,113 --> 00:14:12,932 -Bekah: Oldest is learning their -trombone because someone gave us +00:13:03,102 --> 00:13:05,800 +I'm really passionate. I wanna +learn something." And his answer 289 -00:14:12,932 --> 00:14:13,773 -a free trombone. +00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,300 +was, "You should learn the +oboe." And I'm like, "Okay. What 290 -00:14:14,337 --> 00:14:15,477 -Jessica: see, there you go. -Yeah, exactly. That's how, like +00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,300 +is that?" And [laughs] he was +like, "Here." And so, he got 291 -00:14:15,477 --> 00:14:16,617 -most +00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:14,143 +out an oboe, and he got out a +reed, and 292 -00:14:16,618 --> 00:14:18,717 -kids fall into it. They're like, -I don't know. Just give me an +00:13:14,143 --> 00:13:17,000 +he put it together for me, and +put it-- and he said, "Okay, 293 -00:14:18,717 --> 00:14:20,187 -instrument. I'll figure it out. +00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,567 +this is how you, you know, 294 -00:14:21,913 --> 00:14:24,567 -Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. -And so it's great to hear to +00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:21,300 +blow, and this is how you make +an embouchure." And I did that, 295 -00:14:24,567 --> 00:14:27,221 -your +00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:21,657 +and it 296 -00:14:27,312 --> 00:14:31,602 -you've had this history of -teaching in your family, it +00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,998 +squeaked. He's like, "Perfect. +You should be our new oboe 297 -00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:35,052 -sounds like you also taught -music, but you're also teaching +00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:26,500 +player." [Dan laughs] I was +like, "Okay, cool." And I'm, 298 -00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,393 -now through what you're doing. -You know, you did the lunch and +00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,158 +like, 11 years old. So 299 -00:14:37,393 --> 00:14:39,523 -learn for us and taught us all -about writing, but also as +00:13:28,158 --> 00:13:32,000 +I've just game for anything. And +he probably totally planned 300 -00:14:39,523 --> 00:14:41,653 -you're +00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,878 +that. Like, "Yes! We got another +one." Cuz oboe's so rare in 301 -00:14:41,653 --> 00:14:43,977 -writing, you're teaching. So, -how much of that do you think +00:13:35,927 --> 00:13:39,500 +schools, along with, like, +bassoon. And so that's- that's 302 -00:14:43,977 --> 00:14:46,301 -that, +00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,000 +probably when he heard that I +was-- I just wanna to join. And 303 -00:14:47,173 --> 00:14:51,557 -you're able to lean on. What -you've learned from your mom and +00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,300 +he's like, "Cool. Let's just +talk her into playing this 304 -00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,447 -your grandmother, um, or is it -something that you thought you +00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:47,408 +thing, and- and we're all taken +care of." But I- I 305 -00:14:56,447 --> 00:14:59,238 -really had to work hard to -acquire that skill? +00:13:47,418 --> 00:13:49,998 +guess I have to thank him for it +cuz I ended up falling in 306 -00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:02,647 -Jessica: Yeah, I you know what I -was teaching beginners, there's +00:13:49,998 --> 00:13:50,957 +love with it [chuckles]. So-- 307 -00:15:02,647 --> 00:15:05,301 -a +00:13:51,727 --> 00:13:53,700 +Dan: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, +I'm-- I imagine there was-- 308 -00:15:05,302 --> 00:15:09,113 -lot of patience required when -you're teaching beginner +00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:55,400 +there was no oboe player, you +know, before you started? 309 -00:15:09,113 --> 00:15:12,232 -students, especially beginner -oboist, because it's like a +00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:55,508 +[Chuckles] 310 -00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:15,748 -really weird instrument and -there's not a little. Unnatural +00:13:56,107 --> 00:13:57,832 +Jessica: Yeah, there was +actually just one. 311 -00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,807 -things with it. And so it -requires a lot of patience and +00:13:57,832 --> 00:13:58,300 +Dan: Oh, there was it? 312 -00:15:18,807 --> 00:15:21,658 -just saying, okay, let's just -take it one step at a time. And +00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:02,000 +Jessica: But then, he was like, +"We really need one other one." 313 -00:15:21,658 --> 00:15:25,498 -so I think that translates a lot -into the articles I write. Now I +00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,000 +[Laughs] And so it was easy to +talk at 11 year old. 314 -00:15:25,498 --> 00:15:29,697 -write a lot of beginner articles -on HTML and CSS and JavaScript +00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,148 +It cuz at that age, you're just +like, "I just wanna do 315 -00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:34,018 -and tutorials and all that fun -stuff. And so I know what it's +00:14:07,148 --> 00:14:09,908 +anything." And you're not gonna, +like, fight it there. So-- 316 -00:15:34,018 --> 00:15:35,812 -like. First start out in -programming. And I think a lot +00:14:10,113 --> 00:14:12,932 +Bekah: My oldest is learning the +trombone because someone gave us 317 -00:15:35,812 --> 00:15:37,606 -of +00:14:12,932 --> 00:14:13,773 +a free trombone. So [chuckles]-- 318 -00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:41,807 -writers just skip over stuff and -they'll skip like 20 steps where +00:14:14,337 --> 00:14:15,477 +Jessica: See? There you go. +Yeah, exactly. That's how, like, 319 -00:15:41,807 --> 00:15:44,118 -they're writing about something -and they'll go, oh yeah, first +00:14:15,477 --> 00:14:16,617 +most 320 -00:15:44,118 --> 00:15:47,057 -you do this. And then when you -log in, just take care of this +00:14:16,618 --> 00:14:18,717 +kids fall into it. They're like, +"I don't know. Just give me an 321 -00:15:47,057 --> 00:15:49,008 -and then go over here and I'm -like, wait, wait, wait a minute. +00:14:18,717 --> 00:14:20,187 +instrument. I'll figure it out." +[Chuckles] 322 -00:15:49,008 --> 00:15:52,638 -Like, how is a beginner supposed -to kind of fill in those gaps? +00:14:21,913 --> 00:14:24,567 +Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. +And-- so, it's great to hear to 323 -00:15:52,638 --> 00:15:55,248 -And so I really try to be -conscious about explaining +00:14:24,567 --> 00:14:27,221 +your-- 324 -00:15:55,248 --> 00:15:57,362 -things, not assuming anything, -being patient there, I think +00:14:27,312 --> 00:14:31,602 +you've had this history of +teaching in your family. And it 325 -00:15:57,362 --> 00:15:59,476 -that +00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:35,052 +sounds like you also taught +music. But you're also teaching 326 -00:15:59,477 --> 00:16:02,055 -goes into my writing. Um, cause -I just want to help people as +00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,393 +now through what you're doing, +you know? You did the Lunch and 327 -00:16:02,055 --> 00:16:04,633 -best +00:14:37,393 --> 00:14:41,300 +Learn for us and taught us all +about writing. But also, as 328 -00:16:04,633 --> 00:16:05,293 -as I can. +00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:44,000 +you're writing, you're teaching. +So, you know, how much of that 329 -00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:12,077 -Bekah: That's so important -because the, it. It really helps +00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,301 +do you think that 330 -00:16:12,077 --> 00:16:17,658 -to create a more welcoming and -inclusive space in tech to have. +00:14:47,173 --> 00:14:51,557 +you're able to lean on what +you've learned from your mom and 331 -00:16:19,067 --> 00:16:21,572 -Tutorials or guides or articles -that don't make assumptions +00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,447 +your grandmother? Or is it +something that you thought you 332 -00:16:21,572 --> 00:16:24,077 -about +00:14:56,447 --> 00:14:59,238 +really had to work hard to +acquire that skill? 333 -00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:26,402 -the people who are reading them. -I can't tell you how many times +00:14:59,993 --> 00:15:03,500 +Jessica: Yeah. I- I really-- you +know, when I was teaching 334 -00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:28,727 -I +00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,301 +beginners-- there's a 335 -00:16:28,727 --> 00:16:31,007 -started reading something and -got very frustrated because I +00:15:05,302 --> 00:15:09,113 +lot of patience required when +you're teaching beginner 336 -00:16:31,007 --> 00:16:33,287 -was +00:15:09,113 --> 00:15:12,232 +students, especially beginner +oboist. Because it's, like, a 337 -00:16:33,288 --> 00:16:37,812 -following the steps. But it -wasn't working and I didn't know +00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:15,748 +really weird instrument and +there's not a lot of unnatural 338 -00:16:37,812 --> 00:16:41,863 -what to do or what to look for. -And that can be really hard to +00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,807 +things with it. And so it +requires a lot of patience and 339 -00:16:41,863 --> 00:16:45,582 -navigate through, especially -you're self-taught or you don't +00:15:18,807 --> 00:15:21,658 +just saying, "Okay, let's just +take it one step at a time." And 340 -00:16:45,582 --> 00:16:50,173 -have a good support system. So I -really appreciate hearing you +00:15:21,658 --> 00:15:25,498 +so I think that translates a lot +into the articles I write now. I 341 -00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:53,592 -talk about making sure that -that's part of your process. +00:15:25,498 --> 00:15:27,597 +write a lot of beginner articles +on HTML, and CSS, and 342 -00:16:54,753 --> 00:16:58,038 -Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's -just like the person came to +00:15:27,597 --> 00:15:29,696 +JavaScript, 343 -00:16:58,038 --> 00:17:01,727 -learn. And so when you're just -skipping steps or saying, oh, +00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:34,018 +and tutorials, and all that fun +stuff. And so I know what it's 344 -00:17:01,758 --> 00:17:03,032 -what are the things too? That's -a pet peeve is when people say, +00:15:34,018 --> 00:15:37,607 +like to just first start out in +programming. And I think a lot 345 -00:17:03,032 --> 00:17:04,306 -oh, +00:15:37,607 --> 00:15:40,500 +of writers just skip over stuff +[chuckles] and they'll skip, 346 -00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:06,527 -it's so easy. You just do this. -You can't say that. Like a lot +00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:41,807 +like, 20 steps when they're 347 -00:17:06,527 --> 00:17:08,747 -of +00:15:41,807 --> 00:15:44,118 +writing about something. And +they'll go, "Oh, yeah. First, 348 -00:17:08,748 --> 00:17:10,788 -people do this when they're -setting up, like get hub for the +00:15:44,118 --> 00:15:47,057 +you do this. And then when you +log in, just take care of this, 349 -00:17:10,788 --> 00:17:14,242 -first time and they'll say, oh -yeah, This up and you just run +00:15:47,057 --> 00:15:48,032 +and then go over here," and I'm +like, "Wait, wait, wait a 350 -00:17:14,242 --> 00:17:16,403 -these commands, just open up -your, your. terminal. It's +00:15:48,032 --> 00:15:49,007 +minute." 351 -00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:19,252 -totally fine. And, and there you -go. And it's like, no, it's not +00:15:49,008 --> 00:15:51,500 +Like, "How is a beginner +[chuckles] supposed to kind of 352 -00:17:19,252 --> 00:17:22,583 -totally fine. This is brand new -for a lot of people. So you've +00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:52,638 +fill in those gaps?" 353 -00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:25,643 -got to walk through those steps -and throw in some screenshots +00:15:52,638 --> 00:15:55,248 +And so I really try to be +conscious about explaining 354 -00:17:26,303 --> 00:17:27,997 -make sure that people can follow -along. Cause it might be easy +00:15:55,248 --> 00:15:59,000 +things, not assuming anything, +being patient there, as I think 355 -00:17:27,997 --> 00:17:29,691 -for +00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000 +that goes into my writing. Cuz +I- I just wanna help people as 356 -00:17:29,692 --> 00:17:30,877 -somebody that's been doing it -for many, many years, but when +00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,293 +best as I can. 357 -00:17:30,877 --> 00:17:32,062 -you're +00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:09,589 +Bekah: That's so important. +Because the-- it- it really 358 -00:17:32,063 --> 00:17:34,613 -first learning it, you're going, -wait, where's my terminal. +00:16:09,589 --> 00:16:12,076 +helps 359 -00:17:34,613 --> 00:17:36,307 -Where's my command prompt. How -do I type, do I type this in +00:16:12,077 --> 00:16:17,658 +to create a more welcoming and +inclusive space in tech to have 360 -00:17:36,307 --> 00:17:38,001 -first +00:16:19,067 --> 00:16:23,000 +... tutorials, or guides, or +articles that don't make 361 -00:17:38,002 --> 00:17:40,313 -and then do this? Or this is -very confusing. So. +00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,077 +assumptions about 362 -00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:43,623 -Bekah: Yeah, I'll never forget. -It's one of the first times I +00:16:24,077 --> 00:16:27,700 +the people who are reading them. +Because I can't tell you how 363 -00:17:43,623 --> 00:17:45,662 -paired with somebody is somebody -that I really like admired in +00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:28,727 +many times I 364 -00:17:45,662 --> 00:17:47,701 -the +00:16:28,727 --> 00:16:33,288 +started reading something and +got very frustrated because I 365 -00:17:47,702 --> 00:17:51,542 -industry. And I was terrified -because I didn't know. And at +00:16:33,288 --> 00:16:35,550 +was following the steps. But it +wasn't working. And I didn't 366 -00:17:51,542 --> 00:17:56,012 -that point I hadn't really been -using. Uh, VS Code or, or +00:16:35,550 --> 00:16:37,812 +know 367 -00:17:56,012 --> 00:18:01,952 -anything like that. And so okay, -um, can you open up a text +00:16:37,812 --> 00:16:41,863 +what to do or what to look for. +And that can be really hard to 368 -00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:06,843 -editor? And I had no idea what -that word meant. And so I opened +00:16:41,863 --> 00:16:45,582 +navigate through, especially if +you're self-taught or you don't 369 -00:18:06,843 --> 00:18:09,152 -up Google docs and, they like, -of went with it. And then +00:16:45,582 --> 00:16:50,173 +have a good support system. So I +really appreciate hearing you 370 -00:18:09,152 --> 00:18:11,461 -eventually +00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:53,592 +talk about making sure that +that's part of your process. 371 -00:18:11,462 --> 00:18:15,313 -they were like, do you have -something like VS Code or Atom. +00:16:54,753 --> 00:16:58,038 +Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz +it's just, like, the person came 372 -00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:22,548 -oh, a text editor. like, Things -like that, you know, I didn't +00:16:58,038 --> 00:16:59,882 +to learn. And so, when you're +just skipping steps or saying, 373 -00:18:22,577 --> 00:18:22,718 -know. +00:16:59,882 --> 00:17:01,726 +"Oh, 374 -00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:22,807 -Jessica: Right. +00:17:01,758 --> 00:17:03,032 +what odd to takes [??] to ..." +that's a pet peeve is when 375 -00:18:22,877 --> 00:18:27,528 -Bekah: I hadn't seen it written -before and I was using built-in, +00:17:03,032 --> 00:17:04,306 +people say, "Oh, 376 -00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:32,657 -things with the lessons that I -was learning. I remember just +00:17:04,307 --> 00:17:05,417 +it's so easy. You just do this." +You can't say that [laughs]. 377 -00:18:32,657 --> 00:18:37,278 -that sense of shame that didn't -belong there. Right. I shouldn't +00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:08,747 +Like, a lot of 378 -00:18:37,278 --> 00:18:41,357 -be ashamed in that moment, but -when you feel like there are +00:17:08,748 --> 00:17:10,788 +people do this when they're +setting up, like, GitHub for the 379 -00:18:41,373 --> 00:18:45,633 -assumptions like, oh, I should -have known that. And it's not +00:17:10,788 --> 00:17:14,242 +first time and they'll say, "Oh, +yeah. You just set this up, and 380 -00:18:45,633 --> 00:18:49,623 -true. So to have people breaking -things down to avoid, that makes +00:17:14,242 --> 00:17:15,500 +you just run these commands, +just open up your- your 381 -00:18:49,623 --> 00:18:52,472 -it much easier for people to -keep learning. +00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:16,800 +terminal, it's totally fine. 382 -00:18:53,673 --> 00:18:57,442 -Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Cause I -mean, people want to learn and, +00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,252 +And- and there you go." And +it's, like-- no, it's not 383 -00:18:57,442 --> 00:19:00,363 -and I think writing is just such -an important skill. I think +00:17:19,252 --> 00:17:22,000 +totally fine [chuckles]. This is +brand new for a lot of people. 384 -00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:04,712 -everybody should write and work -on writing. And I think there's +00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:22,583 +So you've 385 -00:19:04,712 --> 00:19:07,353 -just two levels. There's writing -technical articles and then +00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:25,643 +got to walk through those steps +and throw in some screenshots 386 -00:19:07,353 --> 00:19:10,113 -there's also writing about your -personal story. And so the cool +00:17:26,303 --> 00:17:28,700 +and make sure that people can +follow along. Cuz it might be 387 -00:19:10,113 --> 00:19:13,113 -thing about this monthly -challenge is I get to do both is +00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:29,691 +easy for 388 -00:19:13,113 --> 00:19:15,722 -I get to focus on some technical -stuff and then I get to talk +00:17:29,692 --> 00:17:30,877 +somebody that's been doing it +for many, many years. But when 389 -00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:17,867 -about, some weird stories I have -some fun articles coming up +00:17:30,877 --> 00:17:32,062 +you're 390 -00:19:17,867 --> 00:19:20,012 -there +00:17:32,063 --> 00:17:34,500 +first learning it, you're going, +"Wait. Where's my terminal? 391 -00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:21,782 -and just kind of sharing my -story there. +00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:37,300 +Where's my command prompt? How +do I type? Do I type this in 392 -00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,940 -Dan: Yeah, I think that's -awesome. That balance of, of, +00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,313 +first and then do this?" Or, +"This is very confusing." So-- 393 -00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,797 -you +00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:41,200 +Bekah: Yeah, I'll- 394 -00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:34,448 -know, not making assumptions -about your audience and, um, but +00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:41,500 +Dan: Do you-- 395 -00:19:34,448 --> 00:19:35,618 -also still kind of getting your -point across for the thing +00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:41,800 +Bekah: -never forget- 396 -00:19:35,618 --> 00:19:36,788 -you're +00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:42,228 +Dan: Oh, go ahead. 397 -00:19:36,788 --> 00:19:40,278 -trying to learn is, is a, is a -hard balance to strike and I +00:17:42,228 --> 00:17:44,800 +Bekah: -one of the-- first times +I paired with somebody 398 -00:19:40,278 --> 00:19:44,387 -think you do it well. there, is -there anything. If somebody was +00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,701 +is somebody that I really, like, +admired in the 399 -00:19:44,387 --> 00:19:46,727 -starting a technical article, -you know, I mean, w what advice +00:17:47,702 --> 00:17:51,542 +industry. And I was terrified +because I didn't know. And at 400 -00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:49,067 -would +00:17:51,542 --> 00:17:56,700 +that point I hadn't really been +using VS Code or- or anything 401 -00:19:49,067 --> 00:19:50,897 -you give? Like, you know, say -the thing that I wanted to learn +00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:01,952 +like that. And so, they said, +"Okay, can you open up a text 402 -00:19:50,897 --> 00:19:52,727 -or +00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:06,843 +editor?" And I had no idea what +that word meant. And so I opened 403 -00:19:52,728 --> 00:19:56,657 -that I wanted to, you know, -teach, uh, required to GitHub, +00:18:06,843 --> 00:18:09,152 +up Google Docs. And they, like, +kind of went with it. And then 404 -00:19:56,657 --> 00:19:59,117 -you know, required you to check -out a repository and all of that +00:18:09,152 --> 00:18:11,461 +eventually 405 -00:19:59,117 --> 00:20:03,887 -stuff. you say, like, would you -suggest putting all that stuff +00:18:11,462 --> 00:18:15,313 +they were like, "Do you have +something like VS Code or Atom?" 406 -00:20:03,887 --> 00:20:09,093 -step-by-step in or linking to. -Articles about, you know, about +00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:19,390 +And I was like, "Oh, that's a +text editor." I mean, like, 407 -00:20:09,093 --> 00:20:10,982 -how to do that and that kind of -thing. Like what, what kind of +00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:22,718 +things like that, you know, I- I +didn't know. 408 -00:20:10,982 --> 00:20:13,202 -approach, you know, generally -would you would you suggest? +00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:22,807 +Jessica: Right. Right. 409 -00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:17,438 -Jessica: Yeah. So I think it's -fine if they're. Uh, if you want +00:18:22,877 --> 00:18:27,528 +Bekah: I hadn't seen it written +before and I was using built-in 410 -00:20:17,438 --> 00:20:20,327 -to Link an article, or if you -want to have a right at the very +00:18:28,907 --> 00:18:30,782 +things with the lessons that I +was learning. And I remember 411 -00:20:20,327 --> 00:20:23,778 -top of your articles, just say, -prerequisites must be familiar +00:18:30,782 --> 00:18:33,700 +just that, like, sense 412 -00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:27,768 -with and GitHub. Um, I mean, I -just wrote an article about, uh, +00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:37,278 +of shame that didn't belong +there, right? I- I shouldn't 413 -00:20:27,798 --> 00:20:31,067 -how to work with Node and -NodeMailer for emails. And so I +00:18:37,278 --> 00:18:41,357 +be ashamed in that moment, but +when you feel like there are 414 -00:20:31,067 --> 00:20:33,857 -had a prerequisite say, okay, -I'm not going to cover basic +00:18:41,373 --> 00:18:45,633 +assumptions like, "Oh, I should +have known that." And it's not 415 -00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:37,688 -JavaScript. So it's important. -That you understand some of the +00:18:45,633 --> 00:18:49,623 +true. So to have people breaking +things down to avoid that makes 416 -00:20:37,688 --> 00:20:40,538 -basic concepts and the basics -behind nodes. So we can dive +00:18:49,623 --> 00:18:52,472 +it much easier for people to +keep learning. 417 -00:20:40,538 --> 00:20:42,623 -straight into this. And there -was one section there's a +00:18:53,673 --> 00:18:57,442 +Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Cuz, I +mean, people want to learn and- 418 -00:20:42,623 --> 00:20:44,708 -different +00:18:57,442 --> 00:19:00,363 +and I think writing is just such +an important skill. I think 419 -00:20:44,708 --> 00:20:48,847 -setup with how to do Google with -NodeMailer and set up all the, +00:19:00,363 --> 00:19:04,000 +everybody should write and- and +work on writing. And- and I 420 -00:20:49,688 --> 00:20:52,448 -off the authentication there. -And so I did link to another +00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:04,711 +think, there's 421 -00:20:52,448 --> 00:20:54,938 -freeCodeCamp article and say, -okay, here's a detailed +00:19:04,712 --> 00:19:07,353 +just two levels. There's writing +technical articles and then 422 -00:20:54,968 --> 00:20:57,518 -step-by-step process. If you're -going to use google with +00:19:07,353 --> 00:19:10,113 +there's also writing about your +personal story. And so the cool 423 -00:20:57,518 --> 00:21:00,428 -NodeMailer, otherwise you could -walk through the steps that I'm +00:19:10,113 --> 00:19:13,113 +thing about this monthly +challenge is I get to do both, 424 -00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:02,768 -going to show you here. So I -think that's completely fine. +00:19:13,113 --> 00:19:14,417 +is I get to focus on some +technical stuff and then I get 425 -00:21:03,067 --> 00:21:06,893 -There were, if you feel like you -could write through. Um, all of +00:19:14,417 --> 00:19:15,721 +to 426 -00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,952 -those steps in the article, I -think either approach works +00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:19,000 +talk about, yo some weird +stories. And I have some fun 427 -00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:12,563 -there. Um, but I, I think it's -healthy to have like a +00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,012 +articles coming up there 428 -00:21:12,563 --> 00:21:16,222 -prerequisites if necessary, just -to let everybody know, Hey, if +00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:21,782 +and just kinda sharing my story +there. 429 -00:21:16,252 --> 00:21:19,192 -you don't have these -prerequisites, that is going to +00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,940 +Dan: Yeah, I- I think that's +awesome. That balance of- of 430 -00:21:19,192 --> 00:21:22,432 -be kind of hard to follow, -especially for some of the +00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,797 +... you 431 -00:21:22,432 --> 00:21:25,853 -tutorials, because I see a lot -of people have freeCodeCamp, go +00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:34,448 +know, not making assumptions +about your audience and-- but- 432 -00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:29,482 -through a lot of our Python -tutorials, which assume you have +00:19:34,448 --> 00:19:35,618 +but also still kind of getting +your point across for the thing 433 -00:21:29,482 --> 00:21:31,434 -some basic knowledge, but -they're not acknowledging that +00:19:35,618 --> 00:19:36,788 +you're 434 -00:21:31,434 --> 00:21:33,386 -you have, +00:19:36,788 --> 00:19:40,278 +trying to learn is- is a-- is a +hard balance to- to strike and I 435 -00:21:33,478 --> 00:21:36,807 -uh, that basic knowledge. And so -they'll come to the forum and +00:19:40,278 --> 00:19:43,200 +think you- you do it well. Is +there-- is there anything, like, 436 -00:21:36,807 --> 00:21:39,057 -they'll go, how do I do this? Or -why does it say I have an +00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,387 +if somebody was 437 -00:21:39,057 --> 00:21:41,518 -indentation error? And so we'll -tell them, like, you're doing +00:19:44,387 --> 00:19:48,500 +starting a technical article, +you know-- I mean, w-what advice 438 -00:21:41,518 --> 00:21:42,613 -crazy things with your -indentation. You can't do that +00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:49,500 +would you give? 439 -00:21:42,613 --> 00:21:43,708 -in +00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:52,000 +Like, if- if-- what-- you know, +say the thing that I wanted to 440 -00:21:43,708 --> 00:21:46,948 -Python, but they won't know that -because they just started coding +00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,727 +learn or 441 -00:21:46,978 --> 00:21:50,278 -Python like two days ago. And -they're trying to build like a +00:19:52,728 --> 00:19:56,657 +that I wanted to, you know, +teach had-- required GitHub. 442 -00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:54,143 -Discord bot. And so just a -properly communicating. Like, +00:19:56,657 --> 00:19:59,117 +You know, required you to +checkout a repository and all of 443 -00:21:54,143 --> 00:21:58,613 -this is not necessarily a -beginner or if it is like, some +00:19:59,117 --> 00:20:03,300 +that stuff. Would you say, +like-- would you suggest putting 444 -00:21:58,613 --> 00:22:00,098 -walkthrough steps that you can -go through. Here's a great +00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:04,800 +all that stuff step-by-step 445 -00:22:00,098 --> 00:22:01,583 -article +00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,093 +in or linking to, you know, +articles about, you know, about 446 -00:22:01,583 --> 00:22:04,853 -that lays it out. so I, I think -that's completely fine there. +00:20:09,093 --> 00:20:10,982 +how to do that and that kind of +thing? Like, what- what kind of 447 -00:22:04,992 --> 00:22:08,413 -Dan: Ah, I love that, that, um, -prerequisites, you know, is, I +00:20:10,982 --> 00:20:13,202 +approach, you know, generally +would you-- would you suggest? 448 -00:22:08,413 --> 00:22:09,763 -think that's a great, a great -way to set expectations for the, +00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:17,438 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. So I think +it's fine if there's-- like, if 449 -00:22:09,763 --> 00:22:11,113 -you +00:20:17,438 --> 00:20:18,882 +you wanna link an article or if +you wanna have a-- right at the 450 -00:22:11,113 --> 00:22:12,388 -know, for the article. Right. -And then you don't get down +00:20:18,882 --> 00:20:20,326 +very 451 -00:22:12,388 --> 00:22:13,663 -three +00:20:20,327 --> 00:20:23,778 +top of your articles, just say, +prerequisites, must be familiar 452 -00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:16,342 -paragraphs in and. Um, assuming -you read prerequisites, you +00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:27,768 +with Git and GitHub. I mean, I +just wrote an article about 453 -00:22:16,342 --> 00:22:19,021 -know? +00:20:27,798 --> 00:20:31,067 +how to work with Node and +Nodemailer for emails. And so I 454 -00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:22,288 -Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I try to -make it obviously, you know? a +00:20:31,067 --> 00:20:33,857 +had a prerequisite saying, +"Okay, I'm not gonna cover basic 455 -00:22:22,288 --> 00:22:23,488 -headache, like here you go. +00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:35,772 +JavaScript [chuckles]. So it's +important that you understand 456 -00:22:23,823 --> 00:22:24,262 -Dan: Right, right. +00:20:35,772 --> 00:20:37,687 +some of the 457 -00:22:25,198 --> 00:22:26,682 -Jessica: So if someone misses -it, it's like, okay, well, I did +00:20:37,688 --> 00:20:40,538 +basic concepts and the basics +behind Node so we can dive 458 -00:22:26,682 --> 00:22:28,166 -try +00:20:40,538 --> 00:20:42,623 +straight into this." And there +was one section where there's a 459 -00:22:28,167 --> 00:22:28,557 -to warn you. +00:20:42,623 --> 00:20:44,708 +different 460 -00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:31,373 -Dan: Yeah, exactly. I think -that's great advice. Yeah. +00:20:44,708 --> 00:20:48,847 +setup with how to do Google with +Nodemailer and set up all the-- 461 -00:22:33,587 --> 00:22:37,097 -Bekah: Yeah, I think too, it's -almost a really good convention +00:20:49,688 --> 00:20:52,448 +off the authentication there. +And so I did link to another 462 -00:22:37,127 --> 00:22:39,887 -to build into something so I -could see, um, Like software +00:20:52,448 --> 00:20:54,938 +freeCodeCamp article and say, +"Okay. Here's a detailed 463 -00:22:39,887 --> 00:22:42,647 -that +00:20:54,968 --> 00:20:57,518 +step-by-step process if you're +gonna use Google with 464 -00:22:42,647 --> 00:22:47,928 -hosts tech blogging, like, uh, -tech blogging platforms. be +00:20:57,518 --> 00:21:00,428 +Nodemailer. Otherwise, you could +walk through the steps that I'm 465 -00:22:47,928 --> 00:22:50,433 -really nice if that was built -in. what are the prerequisites? +00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:02,768 +gonna show you here." So I think +that's completely fine. 466 -00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:52,938 -And +00:21:03,067 --> 00:21:06,893 +There were-- if you feel like +you could write through all of 467 -00:22:52,938 --> 00:22:56,508 -then you can click the thing or -you can add the thing then that +00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,952 +those steps in the article, I +think either approach works 468 -00:22:56,508 --> 00:22:59,327 -way it already, everybody knows -where they should look Okay. +00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:12,563 +there. But I- I think it's +healthy to have like a 469 -00:22:59,327 --> 00:23:02,146 -This +00:21:12,563 --> 00:21:16,222 +prerequisites, if necessary, +just to let everybody know, 470 -00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,238 -is what I need to know. I don't -know those things. And it also +00:21:16,252 --> 00:21:19,192 +"Hey, if you don't have these +prerequisites, that is gonna 471 -00:23:05,238 --> 00:23:07,562 -puts it in the writer's mind -that it makes it obvious to them +00:21:19,192 --> 00:21:22,432 +be kinda hard to follow." Es- +especially for some of the 472 -00:23:07,562 --> 00:23:09,886 -to +00:21:22,432 --> 00:21:25,853 +tutorials. Because I- I see a +lot of people of freeCodeCamp go 473 -00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:15,657 -think about. It makes it a -deliberate decision to recognize +00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:29,482 +through a lot of our Python +tutorials, which assume you have 474 -00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:20,667 -who their audience is what they -should already know coming into +00:21:29,482 --> 00:21:32,700 +some basic knowledge. But +they're not acknowledging that 475 -00:23:20,667 --> 00:23:24,178 -this. So I think like from both -perspectives, it would be really +00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:35,000 +you have that pretty-- that 476 -00:23:24,178 --> 00:23:29,127 -useful in helping us to have -these conversations about, what +00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,807 +basic knowledge. And so they'll +come to the forum and 477 -00:23:29,127 --> 00:23:32,577 -content is usable, usable for -different audiences. +00:21:36,807 --> 00:21:39,057 +they'll go, "How do I do this?" +Or, "Why does it say I have an 478 -00:23:33,762 --> 00:23:35,457 -Jessica: Right. And then there's -some tutorials where people +00:21:39,057 --> 00:21:41,518 +indentation error?" And so we'll +tell them, like, "You're doing 479 -00:23:35,457 --> 00:23:37,152 -label +00:21:41,518 --> 00:21:43,300 +crazy things with your +indentation. You can't do that 480 -00:23:37,153 --> 00:23:39,613 -it beginner, but it's clearly -isn't beginner. I'm like, I +00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:43,708 +in Python." 481 -00:23:39,613 --> 00:23:42,073 -don't +00:21:43,708 --> 00:21:46,948 +But they won't know that because +they just started coding 482 -00:23:42,073 --> 00:23:44,188 -think beginners or I wasn't -doing that. I was first starting +00:21:46,978 --> 00:21:50,278 +Python, like, two days ago. And +they're trying to build, like, a 483 -00:23:44,188 --> 00:23:46,303 -out. +00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:54,143 +Discord bot. And so just a +properly communicating. Like, 484 -00:23:46,932 --> 00:23:50,952 -And so sometimes people really -mislabel, which hurts beginners, +00:21:54,143 --> 00:21:56,378 +this is not necessarily a +beginner, or if it is, like, 485 -00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:53,143 -and then they're going through -it. They're like, well, how do I +00:21:56,378 --> 00:21:58,613 +"Here some 486 -00:23:53,143 --> 00:23:55,553 -do this? I was like, well, maybe -we start off with something a +00:21:58,613 --> 00:22:00,098 +walkthrough steps that you can +go through. Here's a great 487 -00:23:55,553 --> 00:23:58,330 -little bit easier if that's -okay. So yeah, so sometimes +00:22:00,098 --> 00:22:01,583 +article 488 -00:23:58,330 --> 00:24:01,107 -people, I +00:22:01,583 --> 00:22:04,853 +that lays it out." So I- I think +that's completely fine there. 489 -00:24:01,147 --> 00:24:02,887 -think a lot of it has to do -with, they forget what it's like +00:22:04,992 --> 00:22:06,702 +Dan: Yeah, I love that. That +prerequisites, you know, it-- 490 -00:24:02,887 --> 00:24:04,627 -to be +00:22:06,702 --> 00:22:08,412 +it's-- 491 -00:24:04,627 --> 00:24:05,198 -a beginner +00:22:08,413 --> 00:22:09,763 +I think that's a great-- a great +way to set expectations for 492 -00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:05,288 -Dan: Yes. +00:22:09,763 --> 00:22:11,113 +the-- you 493 -00:24:05,288 --> 00:24:07,597 -Jessica: or they rewrite history -and they're like, oh, I was +00:22:11,113 --> 00:22:12,388 +know, for the article, right? +That way you don't get down 494 -00:24:07,597 --> 00:24:09,262 -totally doing this when I was -first learning in six months or +00:22:12,388 --> 00:22:13,663 +three 495 -00:24:09,262 --> 00:24:10,927 -a +00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:17,000 +paragraphs in and become totally +lost, assuming you read 496 -00:24:10,928 --> 00:24:15,008 -year. And it's like, no, you -probably weren't. You probably +00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,021 +[laughs] the prerequisites, you +know? 497 -00:24:15,008 --> 00:24:18,248 -just forgot you weren't doing -those types of things. Cause I +00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:21,800 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I- I +try to make it obvious. It-- you 498 -00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:19,940 -think the first few months. -Going through a freeCodeCamp and +00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,488 +know, a heading like, "Here you +go." [Laughs] 499 -00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:21,632 -going +00:22:23,823 --> 00:22:24,262 +Dan: Right, right [laughs]. +Yeah. 500 -00:24:21,643 --> 00:24:25,323 -through the certifications, but -I didn't understand how HTML CSS +00:22:25,198 --> 00:22:27,700 +Jessica: So if someone misses +it, and I was like, "Okay. Well, 501 -00:24:25,323 --> 00:24:27,782 -and JavaScript work together. I -was just like, okay, there's +00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:28,557 +I- I did try to warn ya +[laughs]." 502 -00:24:27,782 --> 00:24:30,992 -these things like arrays and -objects, but how do I make a +00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:31,373 +Dan: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I +think that's great advice. Yeah. 503 -00:24:30,992 --> 00:24:33,452 -webpage? So I just didn't -understand how everything +00:22:33,587 --> 00:22:37,097 +Bekah: Yeah, I think, too, it's +almost a really good convention 504 -00:24:33,452 --> 00:24:38,643 -connected. and so beginners, -it's, it's a lot of information +00:22:37,127 --> 00:22:42,647 +to build into something. So I +could see a software that 505 -00:24:38,643 --> 00:24:40,457 -and it's just like fire hose. -And so you just have to make +00:22:42,647 --> 00:22:47,928 +hosts tech blogging. Like, tech +blogging platforms. It'd be 506 -00:24:40,457 --> 00:24:42,271 -sure +00:22:47,928 --> 00:22:52,800 +really nice if that was built-in +So what are the prerequisites? 507 -00:24:42,272 --> 00:24:45,242 -that you're not making -assumptions going, oh yeah, you +00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,200 +And then you can 508 -00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:48,212 -could totally do this with your -beginner. And it's like, no. you +00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,508 +click the thing. Or you can add +the thing. And then that way, 509 -00:24:48,212 --> 00:24:51,528 -gotta break that down there. -That's definitely not a beginner +00:22:56,508 --> 00:23:01,500 +it already-- everybody knows +where they should look for, 510 -00:24:51,528 --> 00:24:54,468 -tutorial. Let's label it -intermediate at best there. +00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:02,146 +"Okay. This 511 -00:24:55,512 --> 00:24:57,142 -Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And you -know, to your point. People +00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,238 +is what I need to know. I don't +know those things." And it also 512 -00:24:57,142 --> 00:24:58,772 -could +00:23:05,238 --> 00:23:09,887 +puts it in the writer's mind +that it makes it obvious to them 513 -00:24:58,772 --> 00:25:00,972 -forget, um, you know, the, what -it feels like to be a beginner +00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:15,657 +to think about it- it makes it a +deliberate decision to recognize 514 -00:25:00,972 --> 00:25:03,172 -at +00:23:15,657 --> 00:23:18,162 +who their audience is and what +they should already know coming 515 -00:25:03,173 --> 00:25:04,648 -it from experience. It's very -easy to forget that, you know, +00:23:18,162 --> 00:23:20,667 +into this. 516 -00:25:04,648 --> 00:25:06,123 -it +00:23:20,667 --> 00:23:24,178 +So I think, like, from both +perspectives, it would be really 517 -00:25:06,123 --> 00:25:07,753 -takes effort to that in -practice. I'm sure. You know, it +00:23:24,178 --> 00:23:29,127 +useful in helping us to have +these conversations about what 518 -00:25:07,753 --> 00:25:09,383 -becomes, +00:23:29,127 --> 00:23:32,577 +content is usab- usable for +different audiences. 519 -00:25:09,823 --> 00:25:11,392 -easier. but, um, yeah, it's, -it's hard to, it's hard +00:23:33,762 --> 00:23:36,000 +Jessica: Right. And then there's +some tutorials where people 520 -00:25:11,392 --> 00:25:12,961 -sometimes to +00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,000 +label it beginner but it clearly +isn't beginner. I'm like- 521 -00:25:12,962 --> 00:25:14,752 -put yourself back in. know, once -you're a few years into a +00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,500 +Bekah: Absolutely [??]. 522 -00:25:14,752 --> 00:25:16,542 -career, +00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:44,300 +Jessica: -I don't think +beginners or I wasn't doing that 523 -00:25:16,903 --> 00:25:20,863 -uh, to put yourself back into -spot, you know, the like total +00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:46,303 +[laughs] when I was first +starting out. 524 -00:25:20,863 --> 00:25:21,792 -utter confusion, +00:23:46,932 --> 00:23:50,952 +And so, sometimes people really +mislabel, which hurts beginners. 525 -00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:23,238 -Jessica: Right. Exactly. +00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:52,062 +And then, they're going through +it, they're like, "Well, how do 526 -00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:26,053 -Dan: like, I, I can remember it, -you know, if I, if I make my, +00:23:52,062 --> 00:23:53,142 +I 527 -00:25:26,173 --> 00:25:29,053 -like, if I think about it, I can -remember it, you know? And I was +00:23:53,143 --> 00:23:55,553 +do this?" I'm like, "Well, maybe +we start off with something a 528 -00:25:29,053 --> 00:25:29,922 -at the same boat. I'm like, -well, I'm writing, you see him +00:23:55,553 --> 00:24:00,000 +little bit easier if- if that's +okay." [Laughs] So-- yeah. So, 529 -00:25:29,922 --> 00:25:30,791 -out +00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,107 +sometimes, people-- I- I 530 -00:25:30,792 --> 00:25:32,247 -here. I'm like, and I was -writing like PHP at the same +00:24:01,147 --> 00:24:04,300 +think a lot of it has to do with +they forget what it's like 531 -00:25:32,247 --> 00:25:33,702 -time. Like I +00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:05,198 +to be a beginner- 532 -00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:35,370 -was like learning it all at the -same time and understand how +00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:05,288 +Dan: Yes. 533 -00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:37,038 -they +00:24:05,288 --> 00:24:06,442 +Jessica: -or they rewrite +history and they're like, "Oh, I 534 -00:25:37,038 --> 00:25:38,253 -all connected. And, you know, -somebody sent me a CSS file. +00:24:06,442 --> 00:24:07,596 +was 535 -00:25:38,253 --> 00:25:39,468 -He's +00:24:07,597 --> 00:24:10,928 +totally doing this when I was +first learning in six months or 536 -00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:42,798 -like instead of using whatever -use this. And I'm like, well, +00:24:10,928 --> 00:24:12,968 +a year." And I was like, "No, +you probably weren't [laughs]. 537 -00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:44,928 -here's a bunch of black magic. -I'm just going to drop into my +00:24:12,968 --> 00:24:15,008 +You probably 538 -00:25:44,928 --> 00:25:46,622 -like... into my program. -apparently it works, you know, +00:24:15,008 --> 00:24:16,628 +just forgot that you weren't +doing those types of things." 539 -00:25:46,622 --> 00:25:48,316 -it +00:24:16,628 --> 00:24:18,248 +Cuz, I 540 -00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:53,147 -it's, uh, yeah, it can be a, a -hard thing to, to remember, but +00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:19,940 +mean, the first few months I was +going through freeCodeCamp and 541 -00:25:53,208 --> 00:25:54,498 -an important thing for sure. +00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:21,632 +going 542 -00:25:55,863 --> 00:25:57,272 -Bekah: So I want to back up a -little bit because I feel like +00:24:21,643 --> 00:24:23,483 +through the certifications, but +I didn't understand how HTML, 543 -00:25:57,272 --> 00:25:58,681 -we +00:24:23,483 --> 00:24:25,323 +CSS, 544 -00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:01,442 -miss this very impart important -part of the story of. You +00:24:25,323 --> 00:24:27,782 +and JavaScript work together. I +was just like, "Okay, there's 545 -00:26:01,442 --> 00:26:04,202 -started +00:24:27,782 --> 00:24:30,992 +these things like arrays and +objects, but how do I make a 546 -00:26:04,202 --> 00:26:07,482 -learning to code and suddenly -you're writing for freeCodeCamp. +00:24:30,992 --> 00:24:33,452 +webpage?" So, like, I just +didn't understand how everything 547 -00:26:07,502 --> 00:26:10,113 -Like that's not something little -right. +00:24:33,452 --> 00:24:38,643 +connected. And so, beginners, +it's- it's a lot of information 548 -00:26:10,163 --> 00:26:11,573 -Jessica: totally glossed over -that. Yeah. +00:24:38,643 --> 00:24:42,000 +and it's just like fire hose. +And so you just have to make 549 -00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:14,372 -Bekah: accomplishment. So I -don't want to lose that. so tell +00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,621 +sure that you're not making +assumptions going, "Oh, yeah. 550 -00:26:14,372 --> 00:26:16,292 -us, +00:24:43,621 --> 00:24:45,242 +You 551 -00:26:16,482 --> 00:26:17,853 -how did that happen? +00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:46,727 +could totally do this when +you're a beginner." And I was 552 -00:26:18,323 --> 00:26:20,182 -Jessica: Yes, it's a crazy -story, but that's kind of my +00:24:46,727 --> 00:24:48,212 +like, "No. You 553 -00:26:20,182 --> 00:26:22,041 -life. But +00:24:48,212 --> 00:24:49,870 +gotta- gotta break that down +there. That's definitely not a 554 -00:26:22,042 --> 00:26:25,942 -what ends up happening is around -October of 2020, or actually +00:24:49,870 --> 00:24:51,528 +beginner 555 -00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:29,663 -September of 2020, I decided to -join the freeCodeCamp forum +00:24:51,528 --> 00:24:54,468 +tutorial. Let's label it +intermediate at- at best there." 556 -00:26:29,663 --> 00:26:31,057 -because like a lot of -self-taught developers, you kind +00:24:55,512 --> 00:24:57,500 +Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And you +know, to- to your point about 557 -00:26:31,057 --> 00:26:32,451 -of bounce +00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:58,772 +how people could 558 -00:26:32,452 --> 00:26:34,312 -around different. Uh, resources, -and then you try to find one +00:24:58,772 --> 00:25:03,172 +forget, you know, the-- what it +feels like to be a beginner at 559 -00:26:34,312 --> 00:26:36,172 -that +00:25:03,173 --> 00:25:04,648 +it-- from experience. It's very +easy to forget that, you know, 560 -00:26:36,173 --> 00:26:38,393 -works. And so I did a few -different things before +00:25:04,648 --> 00:25:06,123 +i-it 561 -00:26:38,393 --> 00:26:41,482 -freeCodeCamp, but then I landed -on freeCodeCamp. I was like, I +00:25:06,123 --> 00:25:08,800 +takes effort to remember that in +practice, I'm sure, you know? It 562 -00:26:41,482 --> 00:26:43,147 -kinda like this. Okay, cool. So -I started going through, the +00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,000 +becomes-- it becomes- 563 -00:26:43,147 --> 00:26:44,812 -first +00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,800 +Jessica: Right. Right. 564 -00:26:44,813 --> 00:26:48,232 -certification, which is on HTML -and CSS and responsive design. +00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,500 +Dan: -easier. But-- yeah. It's- +it's hard to-- it's hard 565 -00:26:48,728 --> 00:26:51,847 -And so I decided to just sign up -for the forum. I was like, maybe +00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,752 +sometimes to put yourself back +in the-- you know, once you're 566 -00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:54,407 -I could connect with some -beginners that be kind of cool. +00:25:14,752 --> 00:25:16,542 +a few years into a career, 567 -00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:57,788 -And some other developers just -talk with them. As I originally, +00:25:16,903 --> 00:25:20,863 +to put yourself back into that +spot, you know? The-- like, 568 -00:26:57,788 --> 00:26:59,917 -I just thought I would just kind -of hang in the background and +00:25:20,863 --> 00:25:21,792 +total utter confusion +[chuckles]. 569 -00:26:59,917 --> 00:27:03,488 -maybe jump in once in a while, -but I ended up jumping in a lot +00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:23,238 +Jessica: Right. Exactly +[laughs]. 570 -00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:06,938 -more and answering questions or -just giving my perspective and +00:25:23,532 --> 00:25:25,500 +Dan: Like, I- I- I can't +remember, you know, if I-- 571 -00:27:06,938 --> 00:27:09,817 -sharing my story. And so after -about a month of being on the +00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:26,052 +if I make my s- 572 -00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:13,667 -forum, Quincy reached out to me -and he was like, Hey, you're +00:25:26,173 --> 00:25:28,700 +like, if I think about it, I can +remember it, you know? It-- and 573 -00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:17,448 -super active and what's your -story? Let's talk. And so we set +00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:30,000 +I was at the same boat. But I'm +like, "Well, I'm already 574 -00:27:17,448 --> 00:27:20,718 -up a Google Meet we talked for -about like 45 minutes, and we +00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000 +familiar [??]." I'm like-- and I +was writing, like, PHP at the 575 -00:27:20,718 --> 00:27:23,897 -just talked about his background -coming from a teacher into tech +00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:33,702 +same t- like-- I was, 576 -00:27:23,897 --> 00:27:27,617 -and then my background with -music. And he decided, he said, +00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:36,000 +like, learning it all at the +same time and totally didn't 577 -00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:32,057 -well, you should join our forum -moderator team and start writing +00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,038 +understand how they 578 -00:27:32,057 --> 00:27:35,988 -for freeCodeCamp is a volunteer. -Okay. I don't know what to write +00:25:37,038 --> 00:25:39,000 +all connected and, you know, +somebody sent me a CSS file. 579 -00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,998 -about. Cause I've just been -doing this for like two seconds +00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,468 +He's like, 580 -00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:40,008 -and he +00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:42,798 +"Here. Instead of using whatever +use this." And I'm like, "Well, 581 -00:27:40,008 --> 00:27:43,307 -said, just share your story. And -I'm like, oh, I could do that. +00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:44,928 +here's a bunch of black magic. +I'm just gonna drop it into my, 582 -00:27:43,307 --> 00:27:46,607 -That sounds fun. So I decided to -just write a few posts about my +00:25:44,928 --> 00:25:47,700 +like-- into my program [laughs] +and- and apparently it works," 583 -00:27:46,607 --> 00:27:49,607 -story so I wrote one, my first -one was about what I enjoyed +00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:48,316 +you know? It-- 584 -00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:53,057 -about being a beginner. I wrote -one article about the parallels +00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:53,147 +it's-- yeah, it can be a- a hard +thing to- to remember, but 585 -00:27:53,057 --> 00:27:58,008 -between music and. Uh, uh, -blending code and programming. +00:25:53,208 --> 00:25:54,498 +an important thing for sure. 586 -00:27:58,188 --> 00:28:02,327 -And then that was noticed by -Gatsby and they were like, Hey, +00:25:55,863 --> 00:25:58,682 +Bekah: So I wanna back up a +little bit because I feel like 587 -00:28:02,327 --> 00:28:03,932 -we have this blog and do you -want to write it? We'll pay you. +00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:01,442 +we miss this very impart-- +important part of the story of 588 -00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:05,537 -I was +00:26:01,442 --> 00:26:04,202 +you started 589 -00:28:05,538 --> 00:28:08,597 -like, yeah, that sounds fun to -me. So that I wrote about +00:26:04,202 --> 00:26:07,482 +learning to code and suddenly, +you're writing for freeCodeCamp. 590 -00:28:08,597 --> 00:28:10,157 -imposter syndrome and how I -dealt with it as a musician and +00:26:07,502 --> 00:26:10,113 +Like, that's not something +little, alright? That's- 591 -00:28:10,157 --> 00:28:11,717 -how. +00:26:10,163 --> 00:26:11,573 +Jessica: [Laughs] We totally +glossed over that. Yeah. 592 -00:28:12,188 --> 00:28:14,798 -Yeah, it goes in with -programming. so now all of a +00:26:12,452 --> 00:26:15,700 +Bekah: -a major accomplishment. +So I don't wanna lose that. 593 -00:28:14,798 --> 00:28:19,057 -sudden I start writing articles -and just sharing my story. And +00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:17,853 +So, tell us, how did that +happen? 594 -00:28:19,057 --> 00:28:20,452 -after a few months of doing -that, Quincy comes back to me +00:26:18,323 --> 00:26:20,182 +Jessica: Yes, it's a crazy +story, but that's kind of my 595 -00:28:20,452 --> 00:28:21,847 -and says, +00:26:20,182 --> 00:26:22,041 +life. But 596 -00:28:22,087 --> 00:28:24,817 -well, I've got another -proposition for you. Um, do you +00:26:22,042 --> 00:26:25,942 +what end up happening is around +October of 2020-- or actually 597 -00:28:24,817 --> 00:28:27,938 -want to start writing technical -articles and we'll pay you per +00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:29,663 +September of 2020, I decided to +join the freeCodeCamp forum 598 -00:28:27,938 --> 00:28:32,538 -article? And I was like, ah, I -don't think I could do that. So +00:26:29,663 --> 00:26:32,451 +cuz like a lot of self-taught +developers, you kind of bounce 599 -00:28:32,538 --> 00:28:36,048 -originally I actually said no -very politely, because I just +00:26:32,452 --> 00:26:36,172 +around different resources, and +then you try to find one that 600 -00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:37,038 -didn't think I could do that. -Cause at this point this was +00:26:36,173 --> 00:26:38,393 +works. And so, I did a few +different things before 601 -00:28:37,038 --> 00:28:38,028 -like +00:26:38,393 --> 00:26:41,482 +freeCodeCamp, but then, I landed +on freeCodeCamp. I was like, "I 602 -00:28:38,028 --> 00:28:42,468 -six months in and we're at the -same time I had started my first +00:26:41,482 --> 00:26:43,147 +kinda like this. Okay, cool." So +I started going through the 603 -00:28:42,468 --> 00:28:45,258 -developer job, but I was still -kind of overwhelmed with that. I +00:26:43,147 --> 00:26:44,812 +first 604 -00:28:45,258 --> 00:28:46,577 -was working part-time at this -small company. And so I was +00:26:44,813 --> 00:26:48,232 +certification, which is on HTML, +and CSS, and responsive design. 605 -00:28:46,577 --> 00:28:47,896 -like, +00:26:48,728 --> 00:26:51,847 +And so I decided to just sign up +for the forum. I was like, 606 -00:28:47,968 --> 00:28:51,637 -I don't know if I'm qualified to -write technical articles, like +00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:54,407 +"Maybe I could connect with some +beginners. That be kinda cool, 607 -00:28:51,647 --> 00:28:55,488 -who is going to believe me. I, I -don't know what I'm doing. And. +00:26:54,518 --> 00:26:56,153 +and some other developers just +talk with them." And so I-- 608 -00:28:55,978 --> 00:28:58,768 -He said, well, I, I think you -can, I think you really good at +00:26:56,153 --> 00:26:57,788 +originally, 609 -00:28:58,768 --> 00:29:03,327 -just breaking down concepts and -could pick articles you feel +00:26:57,788 --> 00:26:59,917 +I just thought I would just +kinda hang in the background and 610 -00:29:03,327 --> 00:29:06,958 -comfortable with. And so he had -this whole Trello board uh, +00:26:59,917 --> 00:27:03,488 +maybe jump in once in a while. +But I ended up jumping in a lot 611 -00:29:06,988 --> 00:29:10,498 -topics and I could just choose -which ones I felt comfortable +00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:06,938 +more, and answering questions or +just giving my perspective, and 612 -00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:13,377 -with. So I picked all the HTML, -CSS, wines, I think maybe a +00:27:06,938 --> 00:27:09,817 +sharing my story. And so after +about a month of being on the 613 -00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:17,127 -couple of JavaScript ones, um, -and just started from there. And +00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:13,667 +forum, Quincy reached out to me +and he was like, "Hey, you're 614 -00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:20,488 -so a few months of just writing -and getting paid per article on +00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:17,448 +super active and what's your +story? Let's talk." And so, we 615 -00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:26,137 -my own schedule and, uh, around -July. Uh, it was interesting +00:27:17,448 --> 00:27:19,083 +set up a Google Meet. And we +talked for about, like, 45 616 -00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:29,887 -because I was deciding if I -actually wanted this to be a +00:27:19,083 --> 00:27:20,718 +minutes. And we 617 -00:29:29,887 --> 00:29:33,728 -full-time career or not. And, -um, an opportunity came up with +00:27:20,718 --> 00:27:23,897 +just talked about his background +coming from a teacher into tech 618 -00:29:33,728 --> 00:29:38,428 -Disney for a music job, but I -ended up turning that down to +00:27:23,897 --> 00:27:27,617 +and then my background with +music. And he decided-- he said, 619 -00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:39,458 -pursue software +00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:32,057 +"Well, you should join our Forum +Moderator Team and start writing 620 -00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:40,617 -Dan: Wow. +00:27:32,057 --> 00:27:34,000 +for freeCodeCamp as a +volunteer." And I was like, 621 -00:29:40,907 --> 00:29:44,347 -Jessica: Yeah. Which is a whole -other story in of itself, which +00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,500 +"Okay. I don't know what to +write about. Cuz I've just been 622 -00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:46,077 -we could cover. But, uh, but -yeah, so then I was like, okay, +00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:37,000 +doing 623 -00:29:46,077 --> 00:29:47,807 -I +00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,300 +this for, like, two seconds +[laughs]." And he said, "Just 624 -00:29:47,807 --> 00:29:51,518 -guess we're going into software -now I turned down that job and +00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,307 +share your story." And I'm like, +"Oh, I- I- I could do that. That 625 -00:29:51,518 --> 00:29:54,087 -then Quincy reached out again, -said, Hey, I've got a job for +00:27:43,307 --> 00:27:46,607 +sounds fun." So I decided to +just write a few posts about my 626 -00:29:54,087 --> 00:29:58,337 -you. I want you to join my team -officially you know, be, uh, +00:27:46,607 --> 00:27:49,607 +story. So I wrote one-- my first +one was about what I enjoyed 627 -00:29:58,397 --> 00:29:59,807 -writing all the time. I was -like, okay, cool. So it's funny +00:27:49,607 --> 00:27:51,332 +about being a beginner. And I +wrote one article about the 628 -00:29:59,807 --> 00:30:01,217 -how +00:27:51,332 --> 00:27:53,057 +parallels 629 -00:30:01,218 --> 00:30:03,333 -life works out, where one door -closes and then another one +00:27:53,057 --> 00:27:58,008 +between music and ... learning +code, and programming. 630 -00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:05,448 -opens +00:27:58,188 --> 00:28:00,257 +And then that was noticed by +Gatsby, and they were like, 631 -00:30:05,448 --> 00:30:09,988 -around. Uh, I started officially -in August of 2021. Writing +00:28:00,257 --> 00:28:02,326 +"Hey, 632 -00:30:09,988 --> 00:30:13,057 -articles and being part of the -author team. And so there's a +00:28:02,327 --> 00:28:03,932 +we have this blog and do you +wanna write? It-- we'll pay you. 633 -00:30:13,057 --> 00:30:16,077 -total of four of us. And we all -come from very diverse +00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:05,537 +And I was 634 -00:30:16,077 --> 00:30:17,862 -backgrounds and we're located -all around the world. but he'll +00:28:05,538 --> 00:28:08,597 +like, "Yeah, that sounds fun to +me." So that I wrote about 635 -00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:19,647 -now +00:28:08,597 --> 00:28:11,800 +imposter syndrome and how I +dealt with it as a musician and 636 -00:30:19,647 --> 00:30:22,647 -assign us articles. And so he'll -send us like 10 or 12 different +00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,299 +how I'd-- yeah, it goes in with +programming. And so now, all of 637 -00:30:22,647 --> 00:30:25,252 -headlines a time. And then. we -just write. basically we +00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:14,798 +a 638 -00:30:25,252 --> 00:30:27,857 -research +00:28:14,798 --> 00:28:16,927 +sudden, I start writing articles +[laughs] and just sharing my 639 -00:30:27,857 --> 00:30:31,127 -and write. Uh, so right now I -have a whole bunch of SQL +00:28:16,927 --> 00:28:19,056 +story. 640 -00:30:31,127 --> 00:30:32,912 -articles and I've been learning -about that and just writing +00:28:19,057 --> 00:28:20,452 +And after a few months of doing +that, Quincy comes back to me 641 -00:30:32,912 --> 00:30:34,697 -about +00:28:20,452 --> 00:28:21,847 +and says, 642 -00:30:35,387 --> 00:30:38,837 -SQL basically as Well, as a few -more JavaScript articles that I +00:28:22,087 --> 00:28:24,817 +"Well, I've got another +proposition for you. Do you 643 -00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,798 -have leftover that you get to -write about. But Yeah. that's, +00:28:24,817 --> 00:28:27,938 +wanna start writing technical +articles and we'll pay you per 644 -00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:45,468 -that's kinda my story. How I, -weird story, how I wound up at +00:28:27,938 --> 00:28:32,538 +article?" And I was like, "I ... +don't think I could do that." So 645 -00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:46,288 -freeCodeCamp. +00:28:32,538 --> 00:28:34,293 +originally, I actually said no +[chuckles] very politely because 646 -00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,692 -Dan: Oh, Thats great. Yeah. And -you actually answered it at the +00:28:34,293 --> 00:28:36,048 +I just 647 -00:30:48,692 --> 00:30:51,032 -end of a question I was going to -ask was, um, you know, how to +00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:37,038 +didn't think I could do that. +Cuz at this point this was, 648 -00:30:51,032 --> 00:30:54,393 -balance, like, if you're, if -writing is, you know, your main +00:28:37,038 --> 00:28:38,028 +like, 649 -00:30:54,452 --> 00:30:56,913 -job, um, how to balance actually -learning, you know, whilst +00:28:38,028 --> 00:28:42,468 +six months in and around the +same time I had started my first 650 -00:30:56,913 --> 00:30:59,462 -writing, but it sounds like kind -of built into the job, right? +00:28:42,468 --> 00:28:45,258 +developer job but I was still +kind of overwhelmed with that. I 651 -00:30:59,788 --> 00:31:00,387 -Jessica: Exactly. +00:28:45,258 --> 00:28:47,500 +was working part-time at this +small company. And so I was 652 -00:31:00,522 --> 00:31:01,262 -Dan: very cool. +00:28:47,968 --> 00:28:50,300 +like, "I don't know if I'm +qualified to- [chuckles] to 653 -00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,557 -Jessica: Cause there's times -where I'll get assigned articles +00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:51,300 +write technical articles. Like, 654 -00:31:03,557 --> 00:31:03,617 -Dan: Yeah. +00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:53,394 +who is gonna believe me? Cuz I- +I don't know what I'm doing." 655 -00:31:03,617 --> 00:31:05,548 -Jessica: and I'm like, okay, I -feel comfortable about this. And +00:28:53,394 --> 00:28:55,488 +And 656 -00:31:05,548 --> 00:31:08,488 -then there's times where I'm -like, I've never really worked +00:28:55,978 --> 00:28:58,768 +he said, "Well, I- I think you +can. I think you really good at 657 -00:31:08,488 --> 00:31:13,107 -with this. So I guess I'll have -to learn it because I have to +00:28:58,768 --> 00:29:00,634 +just breaking down concepts and- +and you could pick articles 658 -00:31:13,107 --> 00:31:16,048 -write about it and convince -people that I know what I'm +00:29:00,634 --> 00:29:02,500 +and-- 659 -00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:17,562 -talking about there, but it's -really great because I get to, +00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:04,729 +that you feel comfortable with." +And so he had this whole Trello 660 -00:31:17,562 --> 00:31:19,076 -we +00:29:04,729 --> 00:29:06,958 +board of 661 -00:31:19,077 --> 00:31:21,215 -all have that, where we are. One -of the authors was asked to +00:29:06,988 --> 00:29:10,498 +topics and I could just choose +which ones I felt comfortable 662 -00:31:21,215 --> 00:31:23,353 -learn +00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:13,377 +with. So I picked all the HTML, +CSS ones. And I think maybe a 663 -00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,502 -some PHP and writes a PHP -articles. Another one was asked +00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:17,127 +couple of JavaScript ones, and +just started from there. And 664 -00:31:26,502 --> 00:31:30,492 -to write C, uh, C++, and learn -that. we're all down for just +00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:20,488 +so a few months of just writing, +and getting paid per article on 665 -00:31:30,492 --> 00:31:32,427 -learning, whatever we need to -learn and get the job done +00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:26,137 +my own schedule, and around +July, it was interesting. 666 -00:31:32,427 --> 00:31:34,362 -there. +00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:29,887 +Because I was deciding if I +actually wanted this to be a 667 -00:31:35,962 --> 00:31:36,893 -Bekah: I love that much. +00:29:29,887 --> 00:29:34,000 +full-time career or not. And an +opportunity came up with Disney 668 -00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:37,333 -Dan: That's +00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,428 +for one-- a music job. But I +ended up turning that down to 669 -00:31:38,018 --> 00:31:38,678 -Bekah: Sorry, go ahead. +00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:39,458 +pursue software [laughs]. 670 -00:31:39,538 --> 00:31:41,847 -Dan: That was my whole thing. -That was awesome. That sounds +00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:40,617 +Dan: Oh, wow. 671 -00:31:41,847 --> 00:31:42,208 -awesome. +00:29:40,907 --> 00:29:43,000 +Jessica: Yeah [chuckles]. Which +is a whole other story in of 672 -00:31:43,538 --> 00:31:45,293 -Bekah: I just kind of want to -sum up your whole timeline here +00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,347 +itself, right? Which 673 -00:31:45,293 --> 00:31:47,048 -of +00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:47,300 +we could cover. But- but-- yeah. +And so then I was like, "Okay. 674 -00:31:47,048 --> 00:31:48,995 -everything that's happened -before. I think that for a lot +00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:50,000 +Well, I guess we're going into +software now [laughs] since I 675 -00:31:48,995 --> 00:31:50,942 -of +00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,518 +turned down that job." And 676 -00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:54,962 -people that we talked to, -especially people who are trying +00:29:51,518 --> 00:29:54,087 +then Quincy reached out again, +said, "Hey, I've got a job for 677 -00:31:54,962 --> 00:31:57,617 -to transition into a tech -career, it's where to get start. +00:29:54,087 --> 00:29:58,337 +you. I want you to join my team +officially and, you know, be 678 -00:31:57,617 --> 00:32:00,272 -And +00:29:58,397 --> 00:30:00,300 +writing all the time." I was +like, "Okay, cool." So it's 679 -00:32:00,303 --> 00:32:02,373 -first of all, like get -comfortable with being +00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:01,217 +funny how 680 -00:32:02,373 --> 00:32:07,952 -uncomfortable, but also. You -finding that spot, you had this +00:30:01,218 --> 00:30:03,333 +life works out, where one door +closes and then another one 681 -00:32:07,952 --> 00:32:11,173 -opportunity because you -participated on freeCodeCamp +00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:05,448 +opens 682 -00:32:11,192 --> 00:32:14,313 -because they reached out to you -because they saw like, look, +00:30:05,448 --> 00:30:09,988 +around-- I started officially in +August of 2021, writing 683 -00:32:14,343 --> 00:32:16,713 -Jessica is awesome and she's -here and she's contributing. +00:30:09,988 --> 00:30:13,057 +articles and being part of the +author team. And so there's a 684 -00:32:16,713 --> 00:32:19,083 -that just +00:30:13,057 --> 00:30:16,077 +total of four of us. And we all +come from very diverse 685 -00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:21,407 -progressively led to more and -bigger and better things. And +00:30:16,077 --> 00:30:17,862 +backgrounds and we're located +all around the world. But he'll 686 -00:32:21,407 --> 00:32:23,731 -so, +00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:19,647 +now 687 -00:32:23,883 --> 00:32:26,223 -you know, start with telling -your story and, writing those +00:30:19,647 --> 00:30:22,647 +assign us articles. And so he'll +send us like 10 or 12 different 688 -00:32:26,223 --> 00:32:28,563 -words +00:30:22,647 --> 00:30:26,500 +headlines at a time. And then we +just write [chuckles]. 689 -00:32:28,563 --> 00:32:31,792 -and this. You know, that's -largely been my blogging +00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:27,857 +Basically, we research 690 -00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:36,442 -experience. I rarely write very -technical things because just +00:30:27,857 --> 00:30:31,127 +and write. So right now, I have +a whole bunch of SQL 691 -00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:41,093 -want to get the words out on -paper, or it's not on paper, but +00:30:31,127 --> 00:30:32,912 +articles. And I've been learning +about that, and just writing 692 -00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:46,063 -put, put it out there into the -world and that's a good place to +00:30:32,912 --> 00:30:34,697 +about 693 -00:32:46,182 --> 00:32:46,603 -start. +00:30:35,387 --> 00:30:38,837 +SQL, basically, as well as a few +more JavaScript articles that I 694 -00:32:47,222 --> 00:32:50,012 -Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's, -everybody has a story and +00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,798 +have leftover that I need to +write about. But-- yeah. That's- 695 -00:32:50,012 --> 00:32:53,192 -everybody has something to talk -about and share. And so just, +00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:45,468 +that's kinda my story, how I-- +my weird story. How I wind up 696 -00:32:53,192 --> 00:32:56,163 -just share with people and you'd -be surprised who reaches out. I +00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:46,000 +at freeCodeCamp. 697 -00:32:56,163 --> 00:32:57,783 -mean, that's how I got my first -developer job is I wasn't +00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,303 +Bekah: Best story. 698 -00:32:57,783 --> 00:32:59,403 -looking +00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,300 +Dan: Oh, that- that's great. +Yeah. And you actually answered 699 -00:32:59,403 --> 00:33:02,282 -for a job. I didn't think I was -anywhere close to being ready, +00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:48,691 +it at the 700 -00:33:02,492 --> 00:33:04,712 -but this guy found me on the -forum. He's like, Hey, I'm +00:30:48,692 --> 00:30:51,032 +end, a- a question I was going +to ask was, you know, how to 701 -00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,798 -looking for a junior. Yeah. Uh, -junior and what, +00:30:51,032 --> 00:30:54,393 +balance, like, if you're-- if +writing is, you know, you-- your 702 -00:33:08,942 --> 00:33:09,123 -Dan: Um, +00:30:54,452 --> 00:30:56,500 +main job, how to balance +actually learning, you know, 703 -00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,597 -Jessica: you want me to write -code for you? And so he's like, +00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,800 +whilst writing? But it sounds +like-- that's kinda built into 704 -00:33:12,597 --> 00:33:16,738 -yeah. And, I still work with him -to this day and it's been an +00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,462 +the job, right? [Chuckles] 705 -00:33:16,738 --> 00:33:20,367 -incredible learning experience, -but that came out of just being +00:30:59,788 --> 00:31:00,387 +Jessica: Exactly. Yeah +[chuckles]. 706 -00:33:20,367 --> 00:33:23,548 -active on the forum and just, -know, writing and talking about +00:31:00,522 --> 00:31:01,262 +Dan: It's very cool. 707 -00:33:23,548 --> 00:33:24,298 -my story there. +00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,557 +Jessica: Cuz there's times where +I'll get assigned articles 708 -00:33:24,729 --> 00:33:27,489 -Bekah: Sorry. I was like, my -brain is split in two different +00:31:03,557 --> 00:31:05,548 +and I'm like, "Okay, I feel +comfortable about this." And 709 -00:33:27,489 --> 00:33:29,693 -directions of where to go here. -Um, I'm a, Dan is you want to +00:31:05,548 --> 00:31:08,488 +then, there's times where I'm +like, "I've never really worked 710 -00:33:29,693 --> 00:33:31,897 -add +00:31:08,488 --> 00:31:12,500 +with this. So I guess, I'll have +to learn it [laughs]." It's 711 -00:33:31,898 --> 00:33:34,298 -something before I take us off -on a tangent? +00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:13,107 +because I have to 712 -00:33:34,743 --> 00:33:37,023 -Dan: Nope. I would say pick the -left one. +00:31:13,107 --> 00:31:16,048 +write about it and convince +people that I know what I'm 713 -00:33:37,513 --> 00:33:41,473 -Bekah: The left one. Okay. My -left one was, um, thinking about +00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:18,800 +talking about there. But it's- +It's really great because I- I 714 -00:33:41,473 --> 00:33:45,973 -your, and literally in my mind, -it was, it was on the left. your +00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,076 +get to-- we 715 -00:33:45,973 --> 00:33:47,398 -career goals. I don't know if -you have career goals, but does, +00:31:19,077 --> 00:31:22,300 +all have that where we are asked +to-- one of the authors was 716 -00:33:47,398 --> 00:33:48,823 -is +00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:23,353 +asked to learn some 717 -00:33:48,824 --> 00:33:50,309 -writing something that you want -to continue to do? Do you want +00:31:23,593 --> 00:31:26,502 +PHP and writes a PHP articles. +And another one was asked to 718 -00:33:50,309 --> 00:33:51,794 -to +00:31:26,502 --> 00:31:30,492 +write C and C++, and learn that. +And so we're all down for just 719 -00:33:51,794 --> 00:33:57,344 -pursue, the writing aspect of -coding or, or find yourself +00:31:30,492 --> 00:31:32,427 +learning whatever we need to +learn and get the job done 720 -00:33:57,344 --> 00:34:01,423 -somewhere in the middle or just -see this as of a tangent of your +00:31:32,427 --> 00:31:34,362 +there. 721 -00:34:01,493 --> 00:34:01,953 -journey? +00:31:35,962 --> 00:31:36,893 +Bekah: I love that so much. 722 -00:34:02,538 --> 00:34:06,949 -Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I would -like to have at one point a, a +00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:37,000 +Dan: That's awesome. 723 -00:34:06,949 --> 00:34:10,128 -traditional, like full-time -developer job, but I definitely +00:31:38,018 --> 00:31:38,678 +Bekah: Sorry, go ahead. 724 -00:34:10,128 --> 00:34:11,478 -still want to keep writing. And -so if there's any way I can +00:31:39,538 --> 00:31:41,500 +Dan: I just-- that was my whole +thing. That was awesome 725 -00:34:11,478 --> 00:34:12,828 -still +00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:42,208 +[chuckles]. That sounds awesome. 726 -00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:16,369 -be involved, especially with -freeCodeCamp, it's still write +00:31:43,538 --> 00:31:45,800 +Bekah: Well, I just, like, kind +of want to sum up your whole 727 -00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:18,093 -articles for them in some sort -of capacity. Cause I just, I, I +00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,048 +timeline here of 728 -00:34:18,093 --> 00:34:19,817 -love +00:31:47,048 --> 00:31:50,300 +everything that's happened +because I- I think that for a 729 -00:34:19,818 --> 00:34:23,031 -to write it. I love. Teach -people and help out wherever I +00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:50,942 +lot of 730 -00:34:23,031 --> 00:34:26,244 -can. but +00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:54,962 +people that we talked to, +especially people who are trying 731 -00:34:26,244 --> 00:34:27,758 -they think the bigger career -goal too, is I have all these +00:31:54,962 --> 00:32:00,000 +to transition into a tech +career, it's where to get start? 732 -00:34:27,758 --> 00:34:29,272 -ideas +00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,373 +And first of all, like, get +comfortable with being 733 -00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:31,658 -for music related, uh, tech that -I want to build. And some of +00:32:02,373 --> 00:32:07,952 +uncomfortable. But also, you +finding that spot, you had this 734 -00:34:31,658 --> 00:34:34,043 -them +00:32:07,952 --> 00:32:11,173 +opportunity because you +participated on freeCodeCamp. 735 -00:34:34,043 --> 00:34:35,928 -are crazy ideas. And I mean, I -guess all my ideas are crazy, +00:32:11,192 --> 00:32:14,313 +Because they reached out to you, +because they saw like, "Look, 736 -00:34:35,928 --> 00:34:37,813 -but +00:32:14,343 --> 00:32:16,713 +Jessica is awesome, and she's +here, and she's contributing." 737 -00:34:38,054 --> 00:34:39,083 -Bekah: are my favorite. +00:32:16,713 --> 00:32:19,083 +And that just 738 -00:34:39,153 --> 00:34:40,453 -Jessica: I guess That's the -entrepreneurship maybe where +00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:21,407 +progressively led to more, and +bigger, and better things. And 739 -00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:41,753 -it's +00:32:21,407 --> 00:32:23,731 +so, 740 -00:34:41,753 --> 00:34:43,378 -like, oh, my ideas are insane, -but I just don't want to let +00:32:23,883 --> 00:32:27,700 +you know, start with telling +your story, and- and writing 741 -00:34:43,378 --> 00:34:45,003 -them +00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:28,563 +those words, 742 -00:34:45,003 --> 00:34:45,443 -go. +00:32:28,563 --> 00:32:31,792 +and this is, you know, that's +largely been my blogging 743 -00:34:45,503 --> 00:34:45,824 -Dan: Those are +00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:36,442 +experience. I rarely write very +technical things because I just 744 -00:34:45,824 --> 00:34:47,508 -Jessica: the best ones And so. -Exactly. So, yeah, so that's +00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:41,093 +wanna get the words out on paper +or-- it's not on paper, but 745 -00:34:47,508 --> 00:34:49,192 -like +00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:45,500 +put- put it out there into the +world. And- and that's a good 746 -00:34:49,193 --> 00:34:52,943 -the long-term goal is to start -slowly tackling some of these +00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:46,603 +place to start. 747 -00:34:52,943 --> 00:34:57,623 -ideas and just kind of go from -there and work a regular +00:32:47,222 --> 00:32:50,012 +Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's-- +everybody has a story, and 748 -00:34:57,623 --> 00:34:59,498 -developer job, but then also -keep writing and have fun with +00:32:50,012 --> 00:32:53,192 +everybody has something to talk +about and share. And so, just- 749 -00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:01,373 -it. +00:32:53,192 --> 00:32:56,163 +just share with people and you'd +be surprised who reaches out. I 750 -00:35:02,753 --> 00:35:07,463 -Bekah: Yeah, that gives me an -idea for a monthly challenge, I +00:32:56,163 --> 00:32:57,783 +mean, that's how I got my first +developer job is at-- I wasn't 751 -00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:09,728 -think we have a big energy -channel in slack. And a lot of +00:32:57,783 --> 00:32:59,403 +looking 752 -00:35:09,728 --> 00:35:11,993 -it +00:32:59,403 --> 00:33:02,282 +for a job. I didn't think I was +anywhere close to being ready. 753 -00:35:11,994 --> 00:35:19,494 -is just GIF's, um, to bring us -big energy. But I really think +00:33:02,492 --> 00:33:04,712 +But this guy found me on the +forum. He's like, "Hey, I'm 754 -00:35:19,494 --> 00:35:22,434 -that so many of us have these -big ideas that we think are +00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,798 +looking for a junior." And I'm +like, "A junior in what?" 755 -00:35:22,434 --> 00:35:24,038 -unattainable, or this is too -big, or this is too out there. +00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:12,000 +[Laughs] Like, "You want me to +write code for you?" And so, 756 -00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:25,642 -Right. +00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,000 +he's like, "Yeah." 757 -00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:31,494 -Or there's just too many of them -like on one. if there was a big +00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,738 +And- and I still work with him +to this day, and it's been an 758 -00:35:31,494 --> 00:35:34,943 -idea month, right? Like we all -write down all of our big ideas +00:33:16,738 --> 00:33:20,367 +incredible learning experience. +But that came out of just being 759 -00:35:34,943 --> 00:35:37,148 -that we want to share. And work -together to kind of give +00:33:20,367 --> 00:33:23,548 +active on the forum and just, +you know, writing and talking 760 -00:35:37,148 --> 00:35:39,353 -feedback +00:33:23,548 --> 00:33:24,298 +about my story there. 761 -00:35:39,353 --> 00:35:40,868 -on those big ideas and figure -out like where to focus or how +00:33:24,729 --> 00:33:27,000 +Bekah: Sorry. I was, like-- my- +my brain is split in two 762 -00:35:40,868 --> 00:35:42,383 -to +00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,000 +different directions of- of +where to go here. I dunno. Dan, 763 -00:35:42,384 --> 00:35:44,048 -break things down. And then, you -know, that way, like together, +00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,649 +do you wanna add something +before I take us off on a 764 -00:35:44,048 --> 00:35:45,712 -we +00:33:32,649 --> 00:33:34,298 +tangent? 765 -00:35:45,713 --> 00:35:48,893 -have that support, but we're, -we're making progress on the +00:33:34,743 --> 00:33:37,023 +Dan: Nope. Nope. I would say, +pick the left one. 766 -00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:51,143 -things that we really enjoy -doing it. +00:33:37,513 --> 00:33:41,473 +Bekah: The left one. Okay. My +left one was thinking about 767 -00:35:52,153 --> 00:35:53,728 -Jessica: Exactly. I mean, I -think ideas are fun and playing +00:33:41,473 --> 00:33:43,723 +your-- and lit- literally in my +mind, it was-- it was on the 768 -00:35:53,728 --> 00:35:55,303 -around +00:33:43,723 --> 00:33:45,973 +left [chuckles]. Your 769 -00:35:55,304 --> 00:35:58,184 -with them and then trying to -implement them. And sometimes +00:33:45,973 --> 00:33:48,000 +career goals. I don't know if +you have career goals, but 770 -00:35:58,184 --> 00:36:00,103 -people will call you crazy. I -mean, people thought I was nuts +00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:48,823 +does-- is 771 -00:36:00,344 --> 00:36:03,764 -to try to do a publishing -company. I remember I went to an +00:33:48,824 --> 00:33:51,794 +writing something that you wanna +continue to do? Do you wanna 772 -00:36:03,764 --> 00:36:07,523 -alumni event. And I was just -started with the business and I, +00:33:51,794 --> 00:33:57,344 +pursue the writing aspect of +coding, or- or find yourself 773 -00:36:07,523 --> 00:36:10,344 -you know, you go around and does -events and you talk to small +00:33:57,344 --> 00:34:00,300 +somewhere in the middle, or just +see this as, you know, part of 774 -00:36:10,344 --> 00:36:11,649 -groups of people, and it was -some sort of administrator with +00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:01,953 +a- a tangent of your journey? 775 -00:36:11,649 --> 00:36:12,954 -the +00:34:02,538 --> 00:34:06,949 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I- I would +like to have, at one point, a- a 776 -00:36:12,954 --> 00:36:17,304 -university of Rochester. And she -was asking me what my next plans +00:34:06,949 --> 00:34:10,128 +traditional, like, full-time +developer job. But I def- I 777 -00:36:17,304 --> 00:36:19,268 -were. I said, well, you know, I -just moved here to LA and +00:34:10,128 --> 00:34:12,300 +definitely still want to keep +writing. And so, if there's any 778 -00:36:19,268 --> 00:36:21,232 -looking +00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:12,828 +way I can still 779 -00:36:21,233 --> 00:36:24,353 -for freelance work, but I also -have this sheet music business +00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:16,369 +be involved, especially with +freeCodeCamp, and still write 780 -00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:28,204 -that he just got started and she -was. Y I'm like, oh, okay. Well, +00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:19,817 +articles for them in some sort +of capacity. Cuz I just-- I- I 781 -00:36:29,403 --> 00:36:33,333 -let me tell you why that was a -little taken aback. I was like, +00:34:19,818 --> 00:34:24,500 +love to write. It-- I love to +just teach people and- and help 782 -00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,448 -okay, great. Well, this -conversation won't last long, +00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,244 +out wherever I can. But 783 -00:36:35,448 --> 00:36:37,563 -uh, +00:34:26,244 --> 00:34:29,272 +I think the bigger career goal +too, is I have all these ideas 784 -00:36:37,623 --> 00:36:40,324 -so I had a few people. They're -just like, why would you, why +00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:34,043 +for music related tech that I +want to build. And some of them 785 -00:36:40,324 --> 00:36:42,401 -would you do that? But I just -had a very specific. Vision of +00:34:34,043 --> 00:34:35,928 +are crazy ideas. And I mean, I +guess all my ideas are crazy, 786 -00:36:42,401 --> 00:36:44,478 -what I +00:34:35,928 --> 00:34:37,813 +but [laughs]-- 787 -00:36:44,478 --> 00:36:46,548 -wanted with my sheet music -business. And then people were +00:34:38,054 --> 00:34:39,083 +Bekah: Those are my favorite. 788 -00:36:46,548 --> 00:36:47,913 -surprised that it actually -turned into a business. I'm +00:34:39,153 --> 00:34:40,453 +Jessica: I guess that's the +entrepreneurship in me where 789 -00:36:47,913 --> 00:36:49,278 -like, well, +00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:41,753 +it's, 790 -00:36:49,309 --> 00:36:52,639 -yeah, I told her I was going to -do that. You didn't believe me. +00:34:41,753 --> 00:34:45,003 +like, all my ideas are insane +but I just don't wanna let them 791 -00:36:53,628 --> 00:36:56,748 -And so, yeah, I think sometimes -people will just reject it and +00:34:45,003 --> 00:34:45,443 +go. 792 -00:36:56,748 --> 00:36:58,458 -then once they see it come true -and they're like, oh, okay. I +00:34:45,503 --> 00:34:45,824 +Dan: It's the best ones. 793 -00:36:58,458 --> 00:37:00,168 -see +00:34:45,824 --> 00:34:49,192 +Jessica: Exactly [chuckles]. +So-- yeah. So that's, like, 794 -00:37:00,168 --> 00:37:02,778 -it there. I mean, the same thing -happened with, with Disney where +00:34:49,193 --> 00:34:51,068 +the long-term goal is to just +start slowly tackling some of 795 -00:37:02,778 --> 00:37:04,233 -people thought he was nuts to -build a park in Anaheim where +00:34:51,068 --> 00:34:52,943 +these 796 -00:37:04,233 --> 00:37:05,688 -all +00:34:52,943 --> 00:34:57,623 +ideas, and just kinda go from +there, and- and work a regular 797 -00:37:05,688 --> 00:37:07,553 -these orange trees were and -then. Obviously that worked out +00:34:57,623 --> 00:34:59,498 +developer job. But then also +keep writing and- and just have 798 -00:37:07,553 --> 00:37:09,418 -for +00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:01,373 +fun with it. 799 -00:37:09,418 --> 00:37:11,113 -him, but initially people -thought he was just completely +00:35:02,753 --> 00:35:05,108 +Bekah: Yeah, it-- that gives me +an idea for a monthly challenge 800 -00:37:11,113 --> 00:37:12,808 -nuts. Like +00:35:05,108 --> 00:35:07,463 +because I 801 -00:37:12,809 --> 00:37:16,378 -who's going to go to this park -and where is Anaheim and Well, +00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:11,993 +think we- we have a big energy +channel in Slack. And a lot of 802 -00:37:16,409 --> 00:37:17,429 -people were wrong then. +00:35:11,994 --> 00:35:19,494 +it is just GIFs to bring us big +energy, but I- I really think 803 -00:37:20,003 --> 00:37:21,844 -Bekah: Well, I love that -confidence that you talk It with +00:35:19,494 --> 00:35:22,434 +that so many of us have these +big ideas that we think are 804 -00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:23,199 -too. You're like, yeah, I'm -going to do this thing because I +00:35:22,434 --> 00:35:24,038 +unattainable, or this is too +big, or this is too out there, 805 -00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:24,534 -want +00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:25,642 +right? Or- 806 -00:37:24,534 --> 00:37:28,043 -to do it. And it's a good idea. -And at some point, people start +00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:29,000 +or there's just too many of them +to- to, like [chuckles], focus 807 -00:37:28,043 --> 00:37:32,003 -to buy into that idea because of -how you present it and the +00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,494 +on one. But if there was a big 808 -00:37:32,003 --> 00:37:33,803 -confidence that you use. And, -oh, you're just like, love how +00:35:31,494 --> 00:35:34,943 +idea month, right? Like, we all +write down all of our big ideas 809 -00:37:33,803 --> 00:37:35,603 -chill +00:35:34,943 --> 00:35:37,148 +that we wanna share them. And +work together to kind of give 810 -00:37:35,603 --> 00:37:37,664 -you are when you talk about -things. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. +00:35:37,148 --> 00:35:39,353 +feedback 811 -00:37:37,673 --> 00:37:40,824 -I would definitely work with -Jessica on that, you know? +00:35:39,353 --> 00:35:40,868 +on those big ideas, and figure +out, like, where to focus or how 812 -00:37:42,068 --> 00:37:44,818 -Jessica: I just like going for -things cause it's like, Yeah, it +00:35:40,868 --> 00:35:42,383 +to 813 -00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:47,588 -either works out or it does it. -And if it doesn't work out, I +00:35:42,384 --> 00:35:45,712 +break things down. And then, you +know, that way, like, together, 814 -00:37:47,588 --> 00:37:50,318 -learned something. I had plenty -of things that didn't work out, +00:35:45,713 --> 00:35:48,893 +we have that support, but we're- +we're making progress on the 815 -00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:52,628 -I'm glad I tried it. So I could -at least learn along the way, +00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:51,143 +thing that we- we really enjoy +doing. 816 -00:37:52,628 --> 00:37:54,548 -but +00:35:52,153 --> 00:35:53,728 +Jessica: Exactly. I mean, I +think ideas are fun, and playing 817 -00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:57,759 -sometimes you just gotta go for -it. You can't really play safe +00:35:53,728 --> 00:35:55,303 +around 818 -00:37:57,789 --> 00:38:00,438 -and, and um, you know what to do -too risky. You don't want to go +00:35:55,304 --> 00:35:58,184 +with them, and then trying to +implement them. And sometimes, 819 -00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:01,963 -like bankrupt or anything crazy, -but like, you know, you just +00:35:58,184 --> 00:36:00,103 +people will call you crazy. I +mean, people thought I was nuts 820 -00:38:01,963 --> 00:38:03,488 -want +00:36:00,344 --> 00:36:03,000 +to- to try to do a publishing +company [chuckles]. I remember 821 -00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:07,583 -to. If you have an idea and you -feel really confident about it, +00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:03,764 +I went to an 822 -00:38:07,583 --> 00:38:09,954 -just, just go for it and take it -one step at a time. There. +00:36:03,764 --> 00:36:07,523 +alumni event. And I was just +started with the business. And 823 -00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:13,748 -Dan: Yeah, it's a theme. That's -come up a few times on the +00:36:07,523 --> 00:36:08,933 +I, you know, you go around in +those events, and you talk to 824 -00:38:13,748 --> 00:38:16,889 -podcast that, you know, it makes -me think of a Structured YOLO. +00:36:08,933 --> 00:36:10,343 +small 825 -00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,528 -Uh, Nick Taylor, um, which is a -phrase he, he coined, you know, +00:36:10,344 --> 00:36:11,649 +groups of people, and it was +some sort of administrator with 826 -00:38:20,528 --> 00:38:22,073 -but it's the same sort of idea, -right? It's is. You know, I +00:36:11,649 --> 00:36:12,954 +the 827 -00:38:22,073 --> 00:38:23,618 -mean, +00:36:12,954 --> 00:36:17,304 +university of Rochester. And she +was asking me what my next plans 828 -00:38:25,059 --> 00:38:27,998 -don't want to do YOLO, right. -But the +00:36:17,304 --> 00:36:19,268 +were. I said, "Well, you know, +I- I just moved here to LA and 829 -00:38:28,074 --> 00:38:28,614 -Jessica: Exactly. +00:36:19,268 --> 00:36:21,232 +looking 830 -00:38:28,778 --> 00:38:29,659 -Dan: structured YOLO. Yeah, +00:36:21,233 --> 00:36:24,353 +for freelance work, but I also +have this sheet music business 831 -00:38:29,693 --> 00:38:30,563 -Jessica: the way out there. I +00:36:24,353 --> 00:36:27,000 +that I just got started." And +she was like, "Why?" I'm like, 832 -00:38:30,708 --> 00:38:30,918 -Dan: yeah, +00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,500 +"Oh, okay. Well [Jessica and Dan +laugh], let me tell you why." 833 -00:38:31,103 --> 00:38:31,224 -Jessica: my +00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:33,333 +That was-- that was a little +taken aback. I was like, 834 -00:38:31,228 --> 00:38:32,139 -Bekah: little bit of YOLO. +00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,000 +"Okay, great. Well, this 835 -00:38:32,588 --> 00:38:32,918 -Dan: yeah, +00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,563 +conversation won't last long +[laughs]." But-- so, 836 -00:38:32,934 --> 00:38:35,213 -Jessica: my business, I wasn't -like, okay, cool. Let's just +00:36:37,563 --> 00:36:40,324 +I had a few people and they're +just like, "Why would you-- why 837 -00:38:35,213 --> 00:38:37,224 -raise all this money. No, that -would have been crazy. Cause I +00:36:40,324 --> 00:36:43,000 +would you do that?" [Chuckles] +But I just had a very specific 838 -00:38:37,224 --> 00:38:38,423 -was like young, 20 something -year old had didn't know what +00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,478 +vision of what I 839 -00:38:38,423 --> 00:38:39,622 -they +00:36:44,478 --> 00:36:46,548 +wanted with my sheet music +business. And then people were 840 -00:38:39,623 --> 00:38:41,138 -were doing. Excited to take -small little steps to get there. +00:36:46,548 --> 00:36:48,800 +surprised that it actually +turned into a business. I'm 841 -00:38:41,138 --> 00:38:42,653 -I +00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,000 +like, "Well, yeah. I told you I 842 -00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:46,673 -couldn't go that big and do some -crazy fundraising goal or +00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,639 +was gonna do that. And you +didn't believe me [laughs]." 843 -00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,284 -whatever when I had no clue what -I was doing. So. +00:36:53,628 --> 00:36:56,748 +And so-- yeah. I think sometimes +people will just reject it, and 844 -00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:54,219 -Dan: Absolutely. But the, know, -the willingness to have an idea +00:36:56,748 --> 00:36:58,458 +then once they see it, it come +true, and they're like, "Oh, 845 -00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:59,048 -that is not what a normal, I -guess, whenever, you know, idea +00:36:58,458 --> 00:37:00,168 +okay. I see 846 -00:38:59,048 --> 00:39:01,028 -that you might run into that -conversation with somebody like, +00:37:00,168 --> 00:37:01,473 +it there." I mean, the same +thing happened with- with Disney 847 -00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:03,039 -well, why, why are you doing -that? You know, but the +00:37:01,473 --> 00:37:02,778 +where 848 -00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:04,988 -willingness to, um, jump into -it, you know, and, and push +00:37:02,778 --> 00:37:05,688 +people thought he was nuts to +build a park in Anaheim where 849 -00:39:04,988 --> 00:39:06,937 -through, +00:37:05,688 --> 00:37:09,418 +all these orange trees were, and +then, obviously, that worked out 850 -00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,278 -I think is, uh, a, know, a -valuable, valuable trait to +00:37:09,418 --> 00:37:11,800 +for him [laughs]. But initially, +people thought he was just 851 -00:39:09,278 --> 00:39:11,587 -have, +00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:12,808 +completely nuts. Like, 852 -00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:13,498 -you know, and obviously it's -served use or do. +00:37:12,809 --> 00:37:16,378 +"Who's gonna go to this park?" +And, "Where is Anaheim?" And, 853 -00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:22,224 -Bekah: So sometimes, um, it can -be really challenging to write. +00:37:16,409 --> 00:37:17,429 +well, people were wrong there +[chuckles]. 854 -00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:29,289 -Blog posts to get started and to -receive feedback on blog posts. +00:37:20,003 --> 00:37:20,923 +Bekah: Well, I like that +confidence that you talk about 855 -00:39:29,318 --> 00:39:33,239 -You know, whether that's from an -editor or somebody who has +00:37:20,923 --> 00:37:21,843 +it with, 856 -00:39:33,628 --> 00:39:42,369 -commented on your posts in a way -that is not, um, kind So how do +00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:24,534 +too. You're like, "Yeah, I'm +gonna do this thing cuz I wanna 857 -00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,838 -you navigate those challenging -situations while you're writing? +00:37:24,534 --> 00:37:27,800 +to do it. And it's a good idea." +And at some point, people start 858 -00:39:46,489 --> 00:39:48,431 -Jessica: Yeah, It's feedback is -always interesting, especially +00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,800 +to buy into that idea because of +how you present it and the 859 -00:39:48,431 --> 00:39:50,373 -in +00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,000 +confidence that you use. And, +oh, you're just, like, I love 860 -00:39:50,373 --> 00:39:51,768 -the world of the internet -because people can just hide +00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,603 +how chill 861 -00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:53,163 -behind their +00:37:35,603 --> 00:37:37,300 +you are when you talk about +things. I'm like, "Oh yeah, 862 -00:39:53,164 --> 00:39:56,043 -computers and save virtually -anything to you that they +00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:40,000 +yeah. I would-- I would +definitely work with Jessica on 863 -00:39:56,043 --> 00:39:58,923 -probably wouldn't say if you -guys, if you were face-to-face +00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:40,824 +that," you know? [Chuckles] +Like-- 864 -00:39:58,923 --> 00:40:02,824 -with them, but I try to just -separate them between actual, +00:37:42,068 --> 00:37:44,000 +Jessica: [Laughs] I just like +going for things cuz it's like-- 865 -00:40:02,824 --> 00:40:06,893 -constructive feedback versus. -this is not helpful. I'm just +00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:44,818 +it-- yeah. It 866 -00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:09,983 -going to move on. And so I've -had, uh, some constructive +00:37:44,818 --> 00:37:47,588 +either works out, or it doesn't. +And if it doesn't work out, I 867 -00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:13,643 -feedback, like, oh, this is -really good. could you like, uh, +00:37:47,588 --> 00:37:50,318 +learned something. I had plenty +of things that didn't work out. 868 -00:40:13,793 --> 00:40:17,213 -you know, expand on this part or -could you talk more about this? +00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:53,500 +But I'm glad I tried it, so I +could at least learn along the 869 -00:40:17,213 --> 00:40:18,983 -And I'm like, okay. Yeah, that -makes sense. And then there's +00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:54,548 +way. But you-- 870 -00:40:18,983 --> 00:40:20,588 -been times where it's like, -well, I think it would be better +00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:57,759 +sometimes, you just gotta go for +it. You can't really play safe 871 -00:40:20,588 --> 00:40:22,193 -if you +00:37:57,789 --> 00:38:00,438 +and- and, you know, what-- do +too risky. You don't wanna go, 872 -00:40:22,193 --> 00:40:25,014 -went into this. I mean, that's -what real developers do or +00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:03,000 +like, bankrupt or anything +crazy. But, like, you- you know, 873 -00:40:25,014 --> 00:40:27,983 -whatever. So I've got like those -comments I'm like, okay, well +00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,488 +you just wanna-- 874 -00:40:27,983 --> 00:40:32,003 -you're an obviously not helpful. -And so I just learned that, uh, +00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:07,583 +if you have an idea and you feel +really confident about it, 875 -00:40:32,003 --> 00:40:33,558 -when I was running my business, -There's just those comments +00:38:07,583 --> 00:38:09,954 +just- just go for it and take it +one step at a time there. 876 -00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:35,113 -that, +00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:13,748 +Dan: Yeah, it's- it's a theme +that's come up a few times on 877 -00:40:35,123 --> 00:40:38,923 -that people just have to, you -know, just write things and +00:38:13,748 --> 00:38:16,200 +the podcast that, you know, it +make- makes me think- think of 878 -00:40:38,923 --> 00:40:41,864 -you're just like, okay, I'm just -not going to waste my energy on +00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:16,889 +Structured YOLO that 879 -00:40:41,864 --> 00:40:46,003 -that. It's a, luckily I haven't -had too many just absolutely +00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,528 +Nick Taylor-- which is a phrase +he- he coined, you know? 880 -00:40:46,003 --> 00:40:49,063 -horrific things. Uh, at least -with my programming writing, +00:38:20,528 --> 00:38:23,000 +But it's the same sort of idea, +right? It is-- it is-- you know, 881 -00:40:49,094 --> 00:40:52,514 -there was only one incident, um, -that I had when I was running my +00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,500 +I mean, [chuckles] I-- you know, +I not wanna do-- go full YOLO, 882 -00:40:52,574 --> 00:40:54,254 -sheet music company, where there -was this guy that went out of +00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:28,778 +right? But [laughs]-- but the-- +but the- 883 -00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:55,934 -his +00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,074 +Bekah: Yeah. 884 -00:40:55,934 --> 00:41:01,054 -way. To make accounts and post -race, racist memes and stuff on +00:38:28,074 --> 00:38:28,614 +Jessica: Exactly. Yeah. 885 -00:41:01,054 --> 00:41:04,324 -my page and on my YouTube -channel. And I, of course I had +00:38:28,778 --> 00:38:29,659 +Dan: -the Structured YOLO. Yeah. 886 -00:41:04,324 --> 00:41:06,784 -to block all that, but he would -keep creating new accounts of +00:38:28,850 --> 00:38:30,800 +Jessica: We don't wanna go all +the way out there. 887 -00:41:06,793 --> 00:41:08,723 -like, you're that threatened -what I'm doing, that you have to +00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:30,300 +Bekah: Yes [chuckles]. 888 -00:41:08,723 --> 00:41:10,653 -spend +00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:30,800 +Jessica: I mean, like- 889 -00:41:10,653 --> 00:41:12,918 -time. And so there are people -out there that just are that +00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:31,000 +Dan: Yeah. 890 -00:41:12,918 --> 00:41:15,183 -hateful +00:38:31,103 --> 00:38:31,500 +Jessica: -my busines-- 891 -00:41:15,813 --> 00:41:19,563 -that you just exist because of -your race or your gender. And +00:38:31,228 --> 00:38:32,139 +Bekah: A little bit of YOLO +[chuckles]. 892 -00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:22,474 -it's just like, okay, you know, -it's a it's, it's okay to be +00:38:32,588 --> 00:38:32,918 +Dan: Yeah. 893 -00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:24,343 -human. Yeah. Uh, you know, feel -that and go, well, come on. +00:38:32,934 --> 00:38:34,500 +Jessica: Yeah. With my business, +I wasn't like, "Okay, cool. 894 -00:41:24,343 --> 00:41:26,212 -Yeah. +00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:35,213 +Let's just 895 -00:41:26,244 --> 00:41:27,433 -But at the end of the day, you -just have to remember like +00:38:35,213 --> 00:38:37,224 +raise all this money." No, that +would have been crazy. Cuz I 896 -00:41:27,433 --> 00:41:28,622 -that's +00:38:37,224 --> 00:38:39,000 +was, like, young. Twenty +something year old that had-- 897 -00:41:28,643 --> 00:41:30,548 -their issue, right. They they're -just a hateful person. Is he +00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,000 +didn't know what [chuckles] they 898 -00:41:30,548 --> 00:41:32,453 -just +00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,653 +were doing. So I had to take +small little steps to get there. 899 -00:41:32,454 --> 00:41:34,673 -trying to block them and move -on? Um, and, and just focus on +00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:46,673 +I couldn't go that big, and- and +do some crazy fundraising goal 900 -00:41:34,673 --> 00:41:36,892 -the +00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,284 +or whatever when I had no clue +what I was doing. So-- 901 -00:41:37,063 --> 00:41:38,658 -helpful, constructive feedback -as well as the positive feedback +00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:53,300 +Dan: Yeah. Absolutely. The-- but +the-- you know, the willingness 902 -00:41:38,658 --> 00:41:40,253 -to, +00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:54,219 +to have an idea 903 -00:41:40,403 --> 00:41:42,623 -to know that you're on the right -track, you're doing the right +00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:58,500 +that is not-- one of ... normal, +I guess? Whenever, you know, 904 -00:41:42,623 --> 00:41:42,744 -thing. +00:38:58,500 --> 00:38:59,048 +[chuckles] an idea 905 -00:41:44,963 --> 00:41:46,313 -Bekah: Yeah, I really liked -that. And that's for a long +00:38:59,048 --> 00:39:01,028 +that you might run into that +conversation of with somebody 906 -00:41:46,313 --> 00:41:47,663 -time, I +00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:03,039 +like, "Well, why? Why you doing +that?" You know? But the 907 -00:41:47,693 --> 00:41:52,134 -stayed away from blogging on any -platform except my own blog, +00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:06,937 +willingness to ... jump into it, +you know, and then push through, 908 -00:41:52,164 --> 00:41:55,929 -because I didn't have comments -enabled. I couldn't see how many +00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:11,587 +I think is- is- is a-- I dunno. +A valuable-- a valuable trait to 909 -00:41:55,929 --> 00:41:57,923 -people liked it, And I still -frequently think about going +00:39:11,588 --> 00:39:13,498 +have, you know? And obviously, +it's served you-- served you 910 -00:41:57,923 --> 00:41:59,917 -back +00:39:13,498 --> 00:39:14,000 +really well. 911 -00:41:59,918 --> 00:42:02,408 -to that rather than cross -posting other places that, that +00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:22,224 +Bekah: So, sometimes, it can be +really challenging to write 912 -00:42:02,408 --> 00:42:04,898 -have +00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:26,139 +blog posts, to get started, and +to receive feedback on blog 913 -00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:08,469 -those built-in things, because -sometimes it can just, it can be +00:39:26,139 --> 00:39:29,289 +posts, 914 -00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:10,719 -hard or you put a lot of time -and effort into something maybe +00:39:29,318 --> 00:39:33,239 +you know? Whether that's from an +editor or somebody who has 915 -00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,969 -two +00:39:33,628 --> 00:39:42,369 +commented on your posts in a way +that is not ... kind. So, how do 916 -00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:17,119 -people like it versus the thing -that I, I YOLO'd on a Saturday +00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,838 +you navigate those challenging +situations while you're writing? 917 -00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:20,378 -night. And then there's all of -these hits and like, what, what +00:39:46,489 --> 00:39:49,800 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. It's-- +feedback is always interesting, 918 -00:42:20,378 --> 00:42:21,248 -is this. +00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:50,373 +especially in 919 -00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:24,998 -Jessica: Yeah. I I've been there -so many times both with like +00:39:50,373 --> 00:39:51,768 +the world of the internet +because people can just hide 920 -00:42:24,998 --> 00:42:28,179 -writing technical articles then -with sheet music where I'll +00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:53,163 +behind their 921 -00:42:28,179 --> 00:42:31,239 -release a new product I'll be -like, oh, this is good. Totally +00:39:53,164 --> 00:39:55,800 +computers and say virtually +anything to you [chuckles] that 922 -00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,766 -sell through. This is gonna be a -hit. And then. The sales are +00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,000 +they probably wouldn't say if +you got-- if you were, like, 923 -00:42:32,766 --> 00:42:34,293 -like +00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:58,923 +face-to-face 924 -00:42:34,293 --> 00:42:38,134 -nothing. I'm like, okay, wildly -misjudge that. And then I'll +00:39:58,923 --> 00:40:02,824 +with them. But I- I try to just +separate them between actual 925 -00:42:38,134 --> 00:42:40,773 -release another product then -like, okay, this will do okay. +00:40:02,824 --> 00:40:06,893 +constructive feedback versus, +ok, this is not helpful. I'm 926 -00:42:40,773 --> 00:42:42,963 -And then it ends up being a -breakout. I'm like, what +00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:09,983 +just gonna move on. And so, I've +had some constructive 927 -00:42:42,963 --> 00:42:47,193 -happened? What did I misjudged? -That it's the same thing with +00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:12,500 +feedback, like, "Oh, this is +really good." Or, "Could you, 928 -00:42:47,193 --> 00:42:49,594 -writing where there'll be some -articles. Actually, this just +00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:16,500 +like, you know, expand on this +part?" Or, "Could you talk more 929 -00:42:49,594 --> 00:42:53,253 -happened with the CodePen and -Replit articles, because I +00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:17,213 +about this?" 930 -00:42:53,253 --> 00:42:54,903 -decided to write those because -free cookie up uses both of +00:40:17,213 --> 00:40:18,983 +And I'm like, "Okay. Yeah, that +makes sense." And then, there's 931 -00:42:54,903 --> 00:42:56,553 -those +00:40:18,983 --> 00:40:21,500 +been times where it's like, +"Well, I think it would be 932 -00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,998 -tools, um, in their -certifications. There really +00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:22,193 +better if you 933 -00:42:59,998 --> 00:43:04,048 -should be a guide to help them -since it's based on the course. +00:40:22,193 --> 00:40:25,014 +went into this. I mean, that's +what real developers do," or 934 -00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:05,398 -And I just thought, okay, well, -few people write these. +00:40:25,014 --> 00:40:27,000 +whatever. So I've got, like, +those comments. And I'm like, 935 -00:43:05,398 --> 00:43:06,748 -Hopefully +00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,000 +"Okay. Well, you're not-- +obviously not helpful [laughs]." 936 -00:43:06,748 --> 00:43:09,449 -they'll just refer to them. But -then both of them were retweeted +00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,003 +And so, I just learned that, 937 -00:43:09,478 --> 00:43:13,829 -by the co-founders and the CEO. -And I'm like, okay, that was +00:40:32,003 --> 00:40:34,500 +when I was running my business, +that there's just those 938 -00:43:13,858 --> 00:43:15,659 -unexpected, but that's kind of -cool. +00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:35,113 +comments that- 939 -00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:21,608 -Dan: Do you ever um, like doing -tech support comments, you know, +00:40:35,123 --> 00:40:38,923 +that people just have to, you +know, just write things and 940 -00:43:21,608 --> 00:43:24,409 -sections when you're writing -technical articles, +00:40:38,923 --> 00:40:40,393 +you're just like, "Okay. I'm- +I'm just not gonna waste my 941 -00:43:24,409 --> 00:43:27,568 -Jessica: I do. Yeah. Yeah. -Sometimes someone's like, oh, I +00:40:40,393 --> 00:40:41,863 +energy on 942 -00:43:27,568 --> 00:43:31,259 -tried this example from your -article. It's not working. And +00:40:41,864 --> 00:40:43,933 +that. It's a-- luckily, I +haven't had too many just 943 -00:43:31,259 --> 00:43:32,308 -I'm like, oh, could you write -the code? It's sometimes it's +00:40:43,933 --> 00:40:46,002 +absolutely 944 -00:43:32,308 --> 00:43:33,357 -hard. +00:40:46,003 --> 00:40:49,063 +horrific things, at least with +my programming writing. 945 -00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:36,329 -Cause like Twitter and stuff, -it's not really good for writing +00:40:49,094 --> 00:40:52,514 +There was only one incident that +I had, when I was running my 946 -00:43:36,329 --> 00:43:37,319 -code, but I'm like, I don't -know, just try your best or take +00:40:52,574 --> 00:40:54,254 +sheet music company, where there +was this guy that went out of 947 -00:43:37,319 --> 00:43:38,309 -a +00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:55,934 +his 948 -00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:41,429 -picture or something. then I'll -say, oh, you have this syntax +00:40:55,934 --> 00:41:01,054 +way to make accounts, and post +race- racist memes and stuff on 949 -00:43:41,429 --> 00:43:43,739 -error right here. If you clean -that up, that you should be good +00:41:01,054 --> 00:41:02,689 +my page, and on my YouTube +channel. And I have-- of course, 950 -00:43:43,739 --> 00:43:47,829 -to go. It's a. Sometimes just -kind of, uh, or actually this +00:41:02,689 --> 00:41:04,324 +I had 951 -00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:50,679 -just happened to, with, uh, the -NodeMailer article where they're +00:41:04,324 --> 00:41:06,784 +to block all that. But he would +keep creating new accounts and 952 -00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,588 -like, oh, could you put this up -on, GitHub repos so we could +00:41:06,793 --> 00:41:09,000 +was like, "You've got +threatened, like, by what I'm 953 -00:43:53,588 --> 00:43:55,688 -study it? And I was like, oh -yeah, I should totally do that. +00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,653 +doing that you have to spend 954 -00:43:55,688 --> 00:43:57,773 -Cause I had just posted the -final code in the article. and +00:41:10,653 --> 00:41:12,918 +time." And so, there are people +out there that just are that 955 -00:43:57,773 --> 00:43:59,858 -without +00:41:12,918 --> 00:41:15,183 +hateful 956 -00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:03,548 -thinking, like people would want -to study it and uh, you know, +00:41:15,813 --> 00:41:19,563 +that you just exist because of +your race or your gender. And 957 -00:44:03,548 --> 00:44:06,068 -fork it and all this fun stuff. -I was like, oh yeah, we should +00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:22,474 +it's just like, okay, you know? +It's a-- it's- it's okay to be 958 -00:44:06,068 --> 00:44:10,088 -probably do that. So I created a -GitHub repository and then, uh, +00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:25,700 +human and, like, ya- you know, +feel that and go, "Well, come 959 -00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,768 -just shared it with that. But -sometimes I'll kind of +00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:26,212 +on." Yeah. 960 -00:44:11,768 --> 00:44:14,018 -troubleshoot with them as best -as possible. My questions are +00:41:26,244 --> 00:41:28,500 +But at the end of the day, you +just have to remember, like, 961 -00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:16,268 -vague. +00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:28,622 +that's 962 -00:44:16,298 --> 00:44:19,719 -I'm like, I'm not really sure -what you're working with unless +00:41:28,643 --> 00:41:32,000 +their issue, right? They-- +they're just a hateful person. 963 -00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,838 -we like together on some sort of -zoom meet, but I don't know how +00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,453 +And so you just 964 -00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:24,369 -feasible that is, but +00:41:32,454 --> 00:41:36,892 +try to block them and- and move +on, and- and just focus on the- 965 -00:44:26,273 --> 00:44:27,833 -Bekah: yeah. that doesn't scale. -Well, I think. +00:41:37,063 --> 00:41:39,200 +the helpful, constructive +feedback as well as the positive 966 -00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,518 -Dan: Uh, what about, so you -mentioned like code stuff like +00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,253 +feedback to- 967 -00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:38,409 -that. kind of, um, I dunno -process, or I guess I'm looking +00:41:40,403 --> 00:41:42,623 +to know that you're on the right +track, you're doing the right 968 -00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:43,313 -for advice generally. if, you if -if your, uh,article Involves a +00:41:42,623 --> 00:41:42,744 +thing there. 969 -00:44:43,313 --> 00:44:45,473 -lot of code and stuff like that. -Do you try to, um, like things +00:41:44,963 --> 00:41:46,313 +Bekah: Yeah, I really liked +that. And that's for a long 970 -00:44:45,473 --> 00:44:47,633 -up +00:41:46,313 --> 00:41:47,663 +time, I 971 -00:44:47,634 --> 00:44:51,204 -into little bits or make a link -to Like, you know, like you +00:41:47,693 --> 00:41:52,134 +stayed away from blogging on any +platform except my own blog 972 -00:44:51,204 --> 00:44:53,574 -mentioned, uh, what, what kind -of, of approaches do you take +00:41:52,164 --> 00:41:55,929 +because I didn't have comments +enabled. I couldn't see how many 973 -00:44:53,574 --> 00:44:56,213 -with, uh, w with technical -articles and with +00:41:55,929 --> 00:41:59,000 +people liked it, you know? And I +still frequently think about 974 -00:44:56,994 --> 00:44:58,568 -Jessica: Yeah. So for some of -the examples they're really +00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,917 +going back 975 -00:44:58,568 --> 00:45:00,142 -small, +00:41:59,918 --> 00:42:02,408 +to that rather than cross +posting other places that- that 976 -00:45:00,143 --> 00:45:04,494 -like I just wrote one about, um, -JavaScript contains or includes +00:42:02,408 --> 00:42:04,898 +have 977 -00:45:04,494 --> 00:45:07,704 -method. Um, and so those were -like really, really small, um, +00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:08,469 +those built-in things because +sometimes, it can just-- it can 978 -00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:09,443 -uh, code examples in there. But -then one of my other articles +00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:12,000 +be hard. Or you put a lot of +time and effort into something, 979 -00:45:09,443 --> 00:45:11,062 -was +00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:12,969 +and maybe two 980 -00:45:11,063 --> 00:45:13,568 -on the MVC pattern. And so I -kind of had to struggle with how +00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:17,119 +people like it versus the thing +that I- I YOLO'ed on a Saturday 981 -00:45:13,568 --> 00:45:16,073 -much +00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:20,378 +night. And then, there's all of +these hits and I'm like, "What- 982 -00:45:16,074 --> 00:45:18,864 -code am I going to include in -this? Cause I built an app +00:42:20,378 --> 00:42:21,248 +what is this?" 983 -00:45:18,864 --> 00:45:22,518 -specifically to talk about that -pattern. But I thought, okay, is +00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:23,528 +Jessica: Yeah. I-- I've been +there so many times. Both with, 984 -00:45:22,518 --> 00:45:25,969 -this going to be a full -walkthrough tutorial, or am I +00:42:23,528 --> 00:42:25,500 +like, writing 985 -00:45:25,969 --> 00:45:29,449 -just going to give out chunks of -it? So it ended up working where +00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:28,179 +technical articles, and then +with sheet music where I'll 986 -00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:33,384 -I said, okay, it's fine. If they -do. Work with that particular +00:42:28,179 --> 00:42:29,709 +release a new product, and I'll +be like, "Oh, this is good. 987 -00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,543 -stack that I was working with -and I was working with the burn +00:42:29,709 --> 00:42:31,239 +Totally 988 -00:45:35,543 --> 00:45:38,664 -stack, but if I could just talk -about the concepts and just have +00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,800 +sell through. This is gonna be a +hit." And then, the sales are, 989 -00:45:38,664 --> 00:45:40,268 -a few snippets of code and say, -this is what this code does. +00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,000 +like, nothing. I'm like, 990 -00:45:40,268 --> 00:45:41,872 -Even +00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,750 +"Okay, wildly misjudged +that."[Laughs] And then I'll 991 -00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,994 -if you're not a JavaScript -developer, at least they can, +00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:38,500 +release 992 -00:45:45,023 --> 00:45:48,384 -there's some context. And I had -the final, project there that +00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:40,773 +another product, then I'm like, +"Okay, this will do okay." 993 -00:45:48,384 --> 00:45:51,503 -they could look at and say, oh, -okay, that's what she's doing +00:42:40,773 --> 00:42:42,963 +And then it ends up being a- a +breakout. I'm like, "What 994 -00:45:51,503 --> 00:45:54,173 -here. And so sometimes you'll -you just want to have like these +00:42:42,963 --> 00:42:46,000 +happened? What did-- why did I +misjudged that?" [Laughs] And 995 -00:45:54,173 --> 00:45:56,364 -small little code examples -sometimes it's totally fine to +00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,193 +it's the same thing with 996 -00:45:56,364 --> 00:45:58,669 -just link to a repository if -it's super super long. cause +00:42:47,193 --> 00:42:49,594 +writing, where there'll be some +articles. Actually, this just 997 -00:45:58,669 --> 00:46:00,974 -then +00:42:49,594 --> 00:42:53,253 +happened with the CodePen and +Replit articles because-- I 998 -00:46:01,034 --> 00:46:04,034 -there's that battle between -length and it's like, how much +00:42:53,253 --> 00:42:56,553 +decided to write those because +freeCodeCamp uses both of those 999 -00:46:04,034 --> 00:46:08,173 -are people really gonna read? If -it's super, super long, there's +00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,998 +tools in their certifications. +And I thought, "There really 1000 -00:46:08,173 --> 00:46:09,718 -not too many, really long -articles on freeCodeCamp. +00:42:59,998 --> 00:43:04,048 +should be a guide to help them +since it's based on the course." 1001 -00:46:09,718 --> 00:46:11,263 -There's +00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:05,398 +And I just thought, "Okay, well, +a few people will write these. 1002 -00:46:11,264 --> 00:46:14,474 -a few that are like at 7,000 -plus words. I personally haven't +00:43:05,398 --> 00:43:06,748 +Hopefully 1003 -00:46:14,474 --> 00:46:17,331 -written any of those. but I -think my longest is 20 I think +00:43:06,748 --> 00:43:08,098 +they'll just refer it to them." +But then both of them were 1004 -00:46:17,331 --> 00:46:20,188 -my +00:43:08,098 --> 00:43:09,448 +retweeted 1005 -00:46:20,188 --> 00:46:21,838 -longest was 3000, but that ended -up just listing off all the +00:43:09,478 --> 00:43:10,800 +by the co-founders- 1006 -00:46:21,838 --> 00:46:23,488 -types +00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:11,000 +Bekah: Yes. 1007 -00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,784 -of like free courses you could -take. but, uh, yeah, I try to +00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,829 +Jessica: -and the CEO. And I'm +like, "Okay, that was 1008 -00:46:25,784 --> 00:46:28,079 -hit +00:43:13,858 --> 00:43:15,659 +unexpected, but that's kinda +cool." 1009 -00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:32,789 -that magic mark of like 1500, a -thousand words or less. I mean, +00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:20,800 +Dan: Do you ever find yourself, +like, doing tech support in 1010 -00:46:32,789 --> 00:46:35,009 -if there's only so much, you -could write about some of these +00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,000 +comments, you know, sections +when you're writing technical- 1011 -00:46:35,009 --> 00:46:38,849 -methods where it's like, I can't -write 1500 words on the includes +00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,409 +technical articles? 1012 -00:46:38,849 --> 00:46:41,248 -method for JavaScript. There's -only so much you could do there +00:43:24,409 --> 00:43:25,988 +Jessica: Sometimes I do. Yeah. +Yeah. Sometimes, someone's like, 1013 -00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:42,449 -that. +00:43:25,988 --> 00:43:27,567 +"Oh, I 1014 -00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:44,828 -Dan: Oh, a good note. I mean, -and that's also an interesting +00:43:27,568 --> 00:43:31,259 +tried this example from your +article. It's not working." And 1015 -00:46:44,828 --> 00:46:46,253 -thing +00:43:31,259 --> 00:43:32,800 +I'm like, "Oh, could you write +the code?" It's-- sometimes it's 1016 -00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:52,539 -to like of, you know, um, -writing, you. If you could feel +00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,000 +hard. Cuz [unintelligible] like +Twitter and stuff, it's not 1017 -00:46:52,539 --> 00:46:55,329 -yourself getting like too long, -you know, it, do you try to cut +00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,319 +really good for writing code. +But I'm, like, I don't know, 1018 -00:46:55,329 --> 00:46:57,309 -down or do you about splitting -it up, but, you I suppose it +00:43:37,319 --> 00:43:39,800 +"Just try your best or take a +picture or something." And then 1019 -00:46:57,309 --> 00:46:59,289 -depends +00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,429 +I'll say, "Oh, you have this +syntax 1020 -00:46:59,289 --> 00:47:03,668 -on what platform you're on or -Code Camp or not, or, you know, +00:43:41,429 --> 00:43:43,739 +error right here. If you clean +that up, then you should be good 1021 -00:47:03,668 --> 00:47:05,268 -but generally +00:43:43,739 --> 00:43:47,829 +to go." It-- it's a-- sometimes, +just kind of-- or actually this 1022 -00:47:05,548 --> 00:47:05,728 -Jessica: right. Cause +00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:50,679 +just happened to-- with the +NodeMailer article where they're 1023 -00:47:05,798 --> 00:47:06,159 -Dan: you know, +00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,588 +like, "Oh, could you put this up +on a GitHub repo so we could 1024 -00:47:06,344 --> 00:47:08,953 -Jessica: I just joined dev.to, -week ago and, or I think I +00:43:53,588 --> 00:43:55,688 +study it?" And I was like, "Oh, +yeah. I should totally do that." 1025 -00:47:08,953 --> 00:47:11,562 -joined +00:43:55,688 --> 00:43:57,773 +Cuz I had just posted the final +code in the article. And 1026 -00:47:11,563 --> 00:47:16,184 -a while for Nick's VS Code tips, -and then just hadn't used it for +00:43:57,773 --> 00:43:59,858 +without 1027 -00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:19,643 -awhile then, like rejoined, I -guess. uh, for the NodeMailer +00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:03,548 +thinking, like, people would +want to study it, and, you know, 1028 -00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:22,833 -article, I was like, oh, Well, I -have these ideas about how to +00:44:03,548 --> 00:44:06,068 +fork it, and all this fun stuff. +I was like, "Oh, yeah. We should 1029 -00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:24,888 -style the emails and how to, uh, -actually, uh, you know, deploy +00:44:06,068 --> 00:44:10,088 +probably do that." So I created +a GitHub repository, and- and 1030 -00:47:24,888 --> 00:47:26,943 -it +00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,768 +then, just shared it with them. +But sometimes, I'll kind of 1031 -00:47:26,943 --> 00:47:28,068 -to Heroku. But maybe we could -just break that up. That could +00:44:11,768 --> 00:44:14,018 +troubleshoot with them as best +as possible. But sometimes, 1032 -00:47:28,068 --> 00:47:29,193 -be +00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:17,300 +they've-- their questions are +vague. I'm like, "I'm not really 1033 -00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:30,933 -a separate article. And I like -how in-depth too, you can link +00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:20,000 +sure what you're working with +[chuckles], unless we, like, 1034 -00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:32,673 -to +00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,500 +get together on some sort of +Zoom meet, but I don't know, 1035 -00:47:32,673 --> 00:47:35,014 -like, create your own little -series and it will link all the +00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:24,369 +like, how feasible that is. +But-- yeah. 1036 +00:44:26,273 --> 00:44:27,833 +Bekah: Yeah, that doesn't scale +well, I think [chuckles]. + +1037 +00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:32,078 +Dan: What about-- so you +mentioned, like, code examples + +1038 +00:44:32,078 --> 00:44:33,517 +and stuff like + +1039 +00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:35,963 +that. What- what kind of-- I +don't know, process or-- I guess + +1040 +00:44:35,963 --> 00:44:38,408 +I'm looking + +1041 +00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:40,861 +for advice generally. But, like, +if-- you know, if you-- if your + +1042 +00:44:40,861 --> 00:44:43,313 +article involves a + +1043 +00:44:43,313 --> 00:44:45,473 +lot of code and stuff like that, +do you try to, like, break + +1044 +00:44:45,473 --> 00:44:47,633 +things up + +1045 +00:44:47,634 --> 00:44:49,419 +into little bits or- or make a +link to a repository, like-- you + +1046 +00:44:49,419 --> 00:44:51,204 +know, like you + +1047 +00:44:51,204 --> 00:44:52,389 +mentioned? What- what kind of-- +what kind of approaches do you + +1048 +00:44:52,389 --> 00:44:53,574 +take + +1049 +00:44:53,574 --> 00:44:56,213 +with- w-wi- with technical +articles and with code examples? + +1050 +00:44:56,994 --> 00:44:58,568 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. So for some +of the examples, they're really + +1051 +00:44:58,568 --> 00:45:00,142 +small, + +1052 +00:45:00,143 --> 00:45:04,494 +like, I just wrote one about +JavaScript contains or includes + +1053 +00:45:04,494 --> 00:45:07,704 +method. And so those were, like, +really, really small + +1054 +00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:11,062 +code examples in there. But then +one of my other articles was + +1055 +00:45:11,063 --> 00:45:15,500 +of the MVC pattern. And so I +kind of had to struggle with how + +1056 +00:45:15,500 --> 00:45:18,864 +much code am I gonna include in +this? Cuz I built an app + +1057 +00:45:18,864 --> 00:45:22,518 +specifically to talk about that +pattern. But I thought, "Okay. + +1058 +00:45:22,518 --> 00:45:25,969 +Is this gonna be a full +walkthrough tutorial or am I + +1059 +00:45:25,969 --> 00:45:27,709 +just gonna give out chunks of +it?" So it ended up working + +1060 +00:45:27,709 --> 00:45:29,449 +where + +1061 +00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:33,384 +I said, "Okay. It's fine if they +don't work with that particular + +1062 +00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,543 +stack that I was working with." +And I was working with the MERN + +1063 +00:45:35,543 --> 00:45:38,664 +stack. But if I could just talk +about the concepts and just have + +1064 +00:45:38,664 --> 00:45:41,872 +a few snippets of code and say, +"This is what this code does." + +1065 +00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,994 +Even if you're not a JavaScript +developer, at least they can-- + +1066 +00:45:45,023 --> 00:45:48,384 +there's some context, and I had +the final project there that + +1067 +00:45:48,384 --> 00:45:51,503 +they could look at and say, "Oh, +okay. That's what she's doing + +1068 +00:45:51,503 --> 00:45:52,838 +here." And so, sometimes, +you'll-- you just wanna have, + +1069 +00:45:52,838 --> 00:45:54,173 +like, these + +1070 +00:45:54,173 --> 00:45:56,364 +small little code examples, +sometimes, it's totally fine to + +1071 +00:45:56,364 --> 00:45:58,669 +just link to a repository if +it's super, super long. Cuz + +1072 +00:45:58,669 --> 00:46:00,974 +then, + +1073 +00:46:01,034 --> 00:46:04,034 +there's that battle between +length and it's, like, how much + +1074 +00:46:04,034 --> 00:46:06,103 +are people really gonna read +[chuckles] if it's super, super + +1075 +00:46:06,103 --> 00:46:08,172 +long? There's + +1076 +00:46:08,173 --> 00:46:09,718 +not too many really long +articles on freeCodeCamp. + +1077 +00:46:09,718 --> 00:46:11,263 +There's + +1078 +00:46:11,264 --> 00:46:14,474 +a few that are, like, at 7,000 +plus words. I personally haven't + +1079 +00:46:14,474 --> 00:46:18,000 +written any of those. Bu- but I +think, my longest was, like, + +1080 +00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,188 +twenty-- oh, no. I think my + +1081 +00:46:20,188 --> 00:46:21,838 +longest was 3000. But that ended +up just listing off all the + +1082 +00:46:21,838 --> 00:46:23,488 +types + +1083 +00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:28,079 +of, like, free courses you could +take. But-- yeah. I try to hit + +1084 +00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,434 +that magic mark of, like, +fifteen hundred, a thousand + +1085 +00:46:30,434 --> 00:46:32,789 +words, or less. I mean, + +1086 +00:46:32,789 --> 00:46:35,009 +if-- there's only so much, you +could write about some of these + +1087 +00:46:35,009 --> 00:46:36,929 +methods where it's, like, I +don't-- I can't write fifteen + +1088 +00:46:36,929 --> 00:46:38,849 +hundred words on the includes + +1089 +00:46:38,849 --> 00:46:41,248 +method for JavaScript. They-- +there's only so much you could + +1090 +00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:42,449 +do there [chuckles]. Yeah. + +1091 +00:46:43,403 --> 00:46:45,000 +Dan: Oh, that's a good note. And +I mean, it-- and that's also an- + +1092 +00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,500 +an interesting thing to, like, +keep track of, you know, when- + +1093 +00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:53,000 +when you're writing. Do you-- if +you could feel yourself getting, + +1094 +00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,329 +like, too long, you know, would +it-- do you try to cut + +1095 +00:46:55,329 --> 00:46:58,000 +down or do you think about +splitting it up but, you know, + +1096 +00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,800 +I- I suppose it's depends on, +you know, what platform you're + +1097 +00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:01,800 +on or whatever [chuckles]- + +1098 +00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:01,800 +Jessica: Yeah. + +1099 +00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,800 +Dan: -free ride-- freeCodeCamp +or- or not, or-- you know? But- + +1100 +00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:04,000 +Jessica: Right. + +1101 +00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,268 +Dan: -I just-- ge- generally- + +1102 +00:47:05,548 --> 00:47:05,728 +Jessica: Right. Cuz I'm part- + +1103 +00:47:05,798 --> 00:47:06,159 +Dan: -you know? + +1104 +00:47:06,344 --> 00:47:10,000 +Jessica: of-- I just joined +dev.to, like, a week ago + +1105 +00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,000 +[laughs]. And-- or I think I +joined a while ago + +1106 +00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,184 +for Nick's VS Code tips, and +then just hadn't used it in-- + +1107 +00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:19,643 +for awhile then, like, rejoined, +I guess. And for the NodeMailer + +1108 +00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:21,248 +article, I was like, "Okay. +Well, I have these ideas about + +1109 +00:47:21,248 --> 00:47:22,832 +how to + +1110 +00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:26,943 +style the emails and how to +actually, you know, deploy it + +1111 +00:47:26,943 --> 00:47:29,193 +to Heroku. But maybe we could +just break that up, that could + +1112 +00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:32,673 +be a separate article." And I +like how in dev.to you can link + +1113 +00:47:32,673 --> 00:47:35,014 +to, like, create your own little +series, and it will link all the + +1114 00:47:35,014 --> 00:47:38,224 -articles together. so sometimes +articles together. So sometimes when you're writing something, -1037 +1115 00:47:38,224 --> 00:47:41,284 -you're like, huh, I have these -other ideas. Maybe it could be +you're like, "Huh, I have these +other ideas. Maybe it could be, -1038 +1116 00:47:41,284 --> 00:47:42,889 like, this is part one. And then -this is part two and stick +this is part two, and stick -1039 +1117 00:47:42,889 --> 00:47:44,494 -around +around for -1040 +1118 00:47:44,494 --> 00:47:47,253 -for part three or something. +part three," or something. I think that's totally fine. Just -1041 -00:47:47,253 --> 00:47:50,164 +1119 +00:47:47,253 --> 00:47:48,708 so it doesn't become this -monster article. It's like, ah, +monster article. It's like, "Ah, -1042 -00:47:50,699 --> 00:47:54,349 -Everybody. It's the same thing -with videos. I think some of the +1120 +00:47:48,708 --> 00:47:50,163 +I don't know if -1043 -00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:58,099 -videos are super long and some -of these channels +1121 +00:47:50,699 --> 00:47:52,524 +everybody ..." [Chuckles] It's +the same thing with videos, I + +1122 +00:47:52,524 --> 00:47:54,349 +think. Some of the + +1123 +00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:56,224 +videos are super long [chuckles] +on some of these- these + +1124 +00:47:56,224 --> 00:47:58,099 +channels- -1044 +1125 00:47:58,224 --> 00:47:58,344 Dan: Yeah. -1045 +1126 00:47:58,759 --> 00:48:00,438 -Jessica: where like, if -somebody's going to sit through +Jessica: -and I'm like, "If +somebody's gonna sit through -1046 -00:48:00,438 --> 00:48:03,679 -17 hours or is that one of those -things where you just got to +1127 +00:48:00,438 --> 00:48:03,000 +17 hours [laughs] or is that one +of those things where you just -1047 -00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:08,119 -break it up into smaller bite -size videos. but I guess +1128 +00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,119 +got to break it up into smaller +bite size videos?" But I guess, -1048 +1129 00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,518 everybody has their own learning methods. So maybe there are -1049 +1130 00:48:10,518 --> 00:48:15,318 people that will go through a 17 hour video or, you know, 7,000. -1050 +1131 00:48:15,318 --> 00:48:17,594 Bekah: My husband used to livestream for freeCodeCamp. And -1051 +1132 00:48:17,903 --> 00:48:21,673 -sometimes he would do it for +sometimes, he would do it for hours and people would stay the -1052 +1133 00:48:21,673 --> 00:48:22,233 whole time. -1053 -00:48:22,273 --> 00:48:24,748 -Jessica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's -some like, yeah. I'm just like, +1134 +00:48:22,273 --> 00:48:22,800 +Jessica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. -1054 -00:48:24,869 --> 00:48:26,099 -wow, how +1135 +00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:23,500 +Bekah: And I'm like-- -1055 +1136 +00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,099 +Jessica: There's some, like-- +yeah. I'm just like, "Wow. How?" + +1137 +00:48:26,099 --> 00:48:26,159 +[Laughs] + +1138 00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:30,028 Bekah: I just live stream for an -hour for the first time ever, +hour for the first-time ever, -1056 -00:48:30,028 --> 00:48:35,998 -probably by myself. I was tired -of hearing myself talk, like, I +1139 +00:48:30,028 --> 00:48:33,013 +probably, by myself. And I was +tired of hearing myself talk, -1057 +1140 +00:48:33,013 --> 00:48:35,998 +like, [laughs] I + +1141 00:48:35,998 --> 00:48:38,159 can't imagine how everybody else -was feeling. You +was feeling, you know? -1058 +1142 00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:38,789 -Jessica: right. +Jessica: Right. -1059 -00:48:39,028 --> 00:48:44,199 -Bekah: my attention span to die. -And then I, then I start YOLOing +1143 +00:48:39,028 --> 00:48:43,500 +Bekah: My attention span starts +to die. And then I-- then I -1060 -00:48:44,248 --> 00:48:47,849 -things and it's, it's not, not -the place I want to be +1144 +00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,500 +start YOLO-ing things -1061 +1145 +00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:47,849 +and it's- it's not- not- not the +place I wanna be [chuckles]. + +1146 00:48:48,179 --> 00:48:50,384 Jessica: Right. Right. You know, -actually that reminds me, Danny +actually, that reminds me, Danny -1062 +1147 00:48:50,384 --> 00:48:52,169 Thompson is one where he has these really long Twitter -1063 +1148 00:48:52,169 --> 00:48:53,954 spaces, -1064 +1149 00:48:53,983 --> 00:48:57,134 but they're really good. So -that's why he kind of is able to +that's why he kinda-- is able to -1065 -00:48:57,134 --> 00:48:59,011 -get away with it because for -most people. They would kind of +1150 +00:48:57,134 --> 00:49:00,200 +get away with it because, like, +for most people, they would -1066 -00:48:59,011 --> 00:49:00,888 -die +1151 +00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:00,888 +kinda die off -1067 -00:49:00,889 --> 00:49:05,389 -off after like at 45 minutes or -an hour, sometimes he'll go for +1152 +00:49:00,889 --> 00:49:03,139 +after, like, at 45 minutes or an +hour, sometimes he's-- he'll go -1068 -00:49:05,389 --> 00:49:08,148 -like three hours or longer. And -then there's still like hundreds +1153 +00:49:03,139 --> 00:49:05,389 +for, -1069 -00:49:08,148 --> 00:49:12,079 -of people and I'm just like, -wow, that's kudos to him then. +1154 +00:49:05,389 --> 00:49:06,768 +like, three hours or longer. And +then there's still, like, -1070 +1155 +00:49:06,768 --> 00:49:08,147 +hundreds + +1156 +00:49:08,148 --> 00:49:10,113 +of people there [laughs]. And +I'm just like, "Wow, that's + +1157 +00:49:10,113 --> 00:49:12,078 +kudos to him there." + +1158 00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:15,659 Bekah: I feel like you need -voice training for some or +voice training for some-- or -1071 +1159 00:49:15,659 --> 00:49:16,889 something, -1072 +1160 00:49:16,918 --> 00:49:19,378 -you know, like even talking, -even when I used to teach night +you know? Like, even talking. +Even when I used to teach night -1073 +1161 00:49:19,378 --> 00:49:24,208 -classes, like three hours of -having conversation and by the +classes, like, three hours of +having conversation, and by the -1074 -00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:27,266 -end, My throat hurts, you know, -and like I am done, I, I did +1162 +00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:29,700 +end, just-- my throat hurts, you +know? And like, "I am done. I- -1075 -00:49:27,266 --> 00:49:30,324 -know +1163 +00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:30,324 +I did know -1076 -00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:35,773 -a teacher who was taking classes -for that reason, because they +1164 +00:49:30,324 --> 00:49:35,772 +a teacher who was taking voice +classes for that reason. Because -1077 -00:49:35,784 --> 00:49:38,213 -were saying, it's, it's how -you're using your voice and you +1165 +00:49:35,784 --> 00:49:36,998 +they were saying, "It's- it's +how you're using your voice, and -1078 -00:49:38,213 --> 00:49:39,503 +1166 +00:49:36,998 --> 00:49:38,212 +you + +1167 +00:49:38,213 --> 00:49:40,793 have to do it in this different -way. And then you'll be fine. +way, and then, you'll be fine. -1079 -00:49:39,503 --> 00:49:40,793 -And +1168 +00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:44,800 +And exercise your muscle." Like +... ugh. I dunno. That's-- -1080 -00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:47,949 -exercise your muscle. Like, ah, -I know that's a lot. I mean, I +1169 +00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,949 +that's a lot. I mean, I -1081 +1170 00:49:47,949 --> 00:49:50,619 think it's the same thing for -writing too. It's it's a muscle +writing too. It's- it's a muscle -1082 +1171 00:49:50,619 --> 00:49:53,679 that you have to exercise. So I -imagine, I mean, you're writing +imagine-- I mean, you're writing -1083 -00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:55,598 +1172 +00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:57,517 on a lot of new topics all the time and learning things, but -1084 -00:49:55,598 --> 00:49:57,517 -has - -1085 +1173 00:49:57,518 --> 00:49:59,498 -the writing process gotten +has the writing process gotten easier? -1086 +1174 00:50:00,063 --> 00:50:03,543 Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I now have more of like a game plan on how -1087 -00:50:03,543 --> 00:50:05,058 -I'm going to enter into an -article. And so I usually like - -1088 -00:50:05,058 --> 00:50:06,573 -to +1175 +00:50:03,543 --> 00:50:06,573 +I'm gonna enter into an article. +And so I usually like to -1089 +1176 00:50:06,574 --> 00:50:09,213 start off with just a little introductory paragraph, knowing -1090 +1177 00:50:09,213 --> 00:50:11,914 -I'm probably going to edit it -later on, but I just throw +I'm probably gonna edit it later +on, but I just throw -1091 -00:50:11,914 --> 00:50:15,003 -something up and then I get into -the meat of the article and kind +1178 +00:50:11,914 --> 00:50:13,458 +something up. And then I get +into the meat of the article and -1092 +1179 +00:50:13,458 --> 00:50:15,002 +kind + +1180 00:50:15,003 --> 00:50:19,023 -of flesh it out. Um, and then -once I clean up the actual main +of flesh it out. And then, once +I clean up the actual main -1093 +1181 00:50:19,023 --> 00:50:21,994 part, then I can go through and come up with a really good -1094 +1182 00:50:22,023 --> 00:50:25,384 introductory paragraph and a -conclusion there I try to focus +conclusion there. I try to focus -1095 +1183 00:50:25,384 --> 00:50:29,824 -all my intention, uh, you know, -just writing the main parts. And - -1096 -00:50:29,824 --> 00:50:33,139 -sometimes I just do like a free -write. Throw words on the page +all my intention, you know, just +writing the main parts. And -1097 -00:50:33,139 --> 00:50:35,089 -and of them make it some of -them, I cut out sections. I'm +1184 +00:50:29,824 --> 00:50:32,000 +sometimes, I just do like a free +write where I'll just throw -1098 -00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:37,039 -like, I +1185 +00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,700 +words on the page and some of +them make it, some of them, -1099 -00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:38,748 -don't know what this was. I -mean, that just happened with +1186 +00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:37,800 +yeah, I cut out sections. And +I'm like, "I don't know what -1100 -00:50:38,748 --> 00:50:40,457 -the +1187 +00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,457 +this was [laughs]." I mean, that +just happened with an -1101 +1188 00:50:40,458 --> 00:50:42,168 article a few weeks ago on how to create tables and SQL. And -1102 +1189 00:50:42,168 --> 00:50:43,878 some -1103 +1190 00:50:43,878 --> 00:50:47,208 -of those sections of like, why -this doesn't make any sense. I +of those sections I'm like, "Why +this doesn't make any sense? I -1104 -00:50:47,208 --> 00:50:48,948 -don't know why this, I thought -this was relevant, but I was +1191 +00:50:47,208 --> 00:50:50,000 +don't know why this-- [laughs] I +thought this was relevant." But -1105 -00:50:48,948 --> 00:50:50,688 -just +1192 +00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:50,688 +I was just -1106 +1193 00:50:50,688 --> 00:50:53,028 throwing words on the page. I'm -like, oh, I should talk about +like, "Oh, I should talk about -1107 -00:50:53,028 --> 00:50:54,950 -this. And then I read it back. -No, I shouldn't have talked +1194 +00:50:53,028 --> 00:50:56,300 +this." And then I read it back. +I'm like, "No, I shouldn't have -1108 -00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:56,872 -about +1195 +00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:57,000 +talked about that." -1109 -00:50:56,873 --> 00:50:59,784 -that, but that's an easier? for -us to kind of cut things out +1196 +00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,784 +But that-- that's an easier for +us to kinda cut things out -1110 +1197 00:50:59,784 --> 00:51:02,844 there and then just reshape it into something acceptable that I -1111 -00:51:02,844 --> 00:51:05,693 -could send to the editor. she -doesn't have to look at it and +1198 +00:51:02,844 --> 00:51:04,268 +could send to the editor. And +she doesn't have to look at it -1112 -00:51:05,693 --> 00:51:06,773 -go, what is this? +1199 +00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,773 +and go, "What is this?" You +know? [Chuckles] -1113 -00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:10,864 +1200 +00:51:08,463 --> 00:51:10,300 Dan: There's one of the benefits -of the medium, right? Is do you +of the writing medium, right? -1114 -00:51:10,864 --> 00:51:14,733 -have the, it easier to go back -and things out that don't make +1201 +00:51:10,300 --> 00:51:10,863 +Is the-- that you have -1115 -00:51:14,733 --> 00:51:14,974 -sense, +1202 +00:51:10,864 --> 00:51:14,000 +the-- it's easier to go back and +[chuckles]- and take things -1116 +1203 +00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:14,974 +out that don't make sense, you +know? Like- + +1204 00:51:15,364 --> 00:51:16,324 Jessica: Exactly. Yeah. -1117 +1205 00:51:16,384 --> 00:51:18,439 -Dan: as opposed to maybe a live -streamer, something things to +Dan: -as opposed to maybe a live +streamer, something like that. -1118 -00:51:18,439 --> 00:51:20,494 -get +1206 +00:51:18,439 --> 00:51:20,914 +The things just get out there. -1119 -00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:20,914 -out there? +1207 +00:51:20,983 --> 00:51:21,800 +Bekah: Well I think-- I mean, +like, that's the expectation of- -1120 -00:51:20,983 --> 00:51:23,143 -Bekah: the expectation of live -streaming, so +1208 +00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,200 +of live streaming. So, it's like +the- -1121 +1209 00:51:23,474 --> 00:51:23,914 -Dan: for sure. +Dan: No, for sure. -1122 -00:51:24,974 --> 00:51:29,300 -Bekah: acceptable thing. Um, I -can't remember what to say. Oh, +1210 +00:51:24,974 --> 00:51:31,000 +Bekah: -built-in acceptable +thing. [Silence] Oh, I can't -1123 -00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,626 -I +1211 +00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,626 +remember what's to say. Oh, I -1124 -00:51:33,626 --> 00:51:36,539 -know what I was gonna say. Um, -Rough drafts are so important. +1212 +00:51:33,626 --> 00:51:38,500 +know what I was gonna say +[chuckles]. Rough drafts are so -1125 -00:51:36,539 --> 00:51:39,452 -I, +1213 +00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:39,452 +important. I-- -1126 +1214 00:51:39,452 --> 00:51:41,641 and I think that it's worth it to point out that there's a -1127 +1215 00:51:41,641 --> 00:51:43,830 -process +process, -1128 +1216 00:51:43,862 --> 00:51:46,081 that you get better at that -process. And you have a rough +process, and you have a rough -1129 +1217 00:51:46,081 --> 00:51:50,132 -draft. No, nobody puts out a +draft. No-- nobody puts out a perfect rough draft, a perfect -1130 +1218 00:51:50,132 --> 00:51:54,141 -draft. The first time it is a +draft, the first time. It is a process and it does take time. -1131 -00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:59,206 -You know, just listening to you -talk about tech, Jessica, you +1219 +00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:57,151 +But, you know, just listening to +you talk about tech, Jessica, -1132 +1220 +00:51:57,151 --> 00:51:59,205 +you + +1221 00:51:59,237 --> 00:52:04,967 -communicate it so well. it's -really, I feel like I learned a +communicate it so well that it's +really-- I feel like I learned a -1133 +1222 00:52:04,967 --> 00:52:08,757 lot just hearing you talk about these things. And so you can -1134 +1223 00:52:08,757 --> 00:52:12,286 really appreciate that process -of learning and then, and how it +of learning and then-- and how -1135 -00:52:12,286 --> 00:52:16,916 -impacts the way that you talk -about things. And I imagine it, +1224 +00:52:12,286 --> 00:52:14,601 +it impacts the way that- that +you talk about things. And I -1136 +1225 +00:52:14,601 --> 00:52:16,916 +imagine it-- + +1226 00:52:16,936 --> 00:52:18,991 -that goes into interviewing and -stuff like that. Because you +that goes into interviewing and- +and stuff like that. Because if -1137 +1227 00:52:18,991 --> 00:52:21,046 -talk +you talk -1138 -00:52:21,047 --> 00:52:22,797 +1228 +00:52:21,047 --> 00:52:24,547 with credibility, then people -are more likely to. Um, see you - -1139 -00:52:22,797 --> 00:52:24,547 -as a +are more likely to see you as a -1140 +1229 00:52:24,547 --> 00:52:25,536 credible person. -1141 -00:52:26,356 --> 00:52:29,297 -Jessica: Yeah, Yeah. And that's -the thing is that want to come +1230 +00:52:26,356 --> 00:52:27,826 +Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. And that's +the thing is that y-you wanna -1142 +1231 +00:52:27,826 --> 00:52:29,296 +come + +1232 00:52:29,297 --> 00:52:31,187 -across as, how can I add value -to the company or organization +across as how can I add value to +the company or organization. -1143 +1233 00:52:31,187 --> 00:52:33,077 -if +If -1144 -00:52:33,077 --> 00:52:36,166 -you come across as I just really -need a job? Well, the company's +1234 +00:52:33,077 --> 00:52:34,621 +you come across as, "I just +really need a job." Well, the -1145 +1235 +00:52:34,621 --> 00:52:36,165 +company's + +1236 00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:37,546 not really hiring you because -you need a job. Like they're +you need a job. Like, they're -1146 +1237 00:52:37,546 --> 00:52:38,926 hiring -1147 -00:52:38,927 --> 00:52:40,727 +1238 +00:52:38,927 --> 00:52:42,527 you because they need people to join their team and add value. -1148 -00:52:40,727 --> 00:52:42,527 -if +1239 +00:52:42,527 --> 00:52:43,951 +And so, if you come in and say, +"Here's how I can add value to -1149 -00:52:42,527 --> 00:52:45,376 -you come in and say, here's how -I can add value to you, then +1240 +00:52:43,951 --> 00:52:45,375 +you," then -1150 -00:52:45,376 --> 00:52:48,347 -they'll listen. And I think -that's just coming in with a +1241 +00:52:45,376 --> 00:52:46,861 +they'll listen. And- and so I- I +think, that's just coming in -1151 +1242 +00:52:46,861 --> 00:52:48,346 +with a + +1243 00:52:48,347 --> 00:52:51,291 -little bit of confidence. Will -go a long way there. +little bit of confidence will go +a long way there. -1152 +1244 00:52:53,206 --> 00:52:55,111 Bekah: Yeah, absolutely. So -we're at about time here, but +we're at about time here. But -1153 +1245 00:52:55,111 --> 00:52:57,016 are there -1154 +1246 00:52:57,016 --> 00:53:02,297 any last tips that you have for -our listeners about getting, +our listeners about get this-- -1155 +1247 00:53:02,297 --> 00:53:04,007 -started with writing? +getting started with writing? -1156 +1248 00:53:04,967 --> 00:53:09,737 -Jessica: Um, I think just the -best tip is just, get started. I +Jessica: I think just the best +tip is just- just get started -1157 -00:53:09,737 --> 00:53:12,106 -think a lot of people -procrastinate because they're +1249 +00:53:09,737 --> 00:53:10,921 +[laughs]. I think a lot of +people procrastinate because -1158 -00:53:12,106 --> 00:53:13,006 +1250 +00:53:10,921 --> 00:53:12,105 +they're, + +1251 +00:53:12,106 --> 00:53:13,906 like, I don't know what to write -about. I don't know what to do. +about, I don't know what to do, -1159 -00:53:13,006 --> 00:53:13,906 -I +1252 +00:53:13,907 --> 00:53:15,661 +I don't know how to get started. +Just- just get started. And- and -1160 -00:53:13,907 --> 00:53:17,416 -don't know how to get started. -get started and just start +1253 +00:53:15,661 --> 00:53:17,415 +just start -1161 +1254 00:53:17,416 --> 00:53:19,936 working from there. And you can always ask for feedback within -1162 +1255 00:53:19,936 --> 00:53:21,406 -your community and say, Hey, I'm -writing this article. I dunno +your community and say, "Hey, +I'm writing this article. I -1163 +1256 00:53:21,406 --> 00:53:22,876 -how +dunno -1164 -00:53:22,876 --> 00:53:27,496 -it really works it yet, or it -needs some help, but, uh, don't +1257 +00:53:22,876 --> 00:53:25,186 +how it really works it- it- it-- +yet," or, "it needs some help." -1165 -00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:31,211 -wait for the perfect. To get -started writing? to just start +1258 +00:53:25,186 --> 00:53:27,496 +But don't -1166 +1259 +00:53:27,496 --> 00:53:29,353 +wait for the perfect moment to +get started writing. To- to + +1260 +00:53:29,353 --> 00:53:31,210 +start + +1261 00:53:31,211 --> 00:53:32,666 writing, to start throwing some words on the page, start -1167 +1262 00:53:32,666 --> 00:53:34,121 creating -1168 -00:53:34,121 --> 00:53:37,961 -an outline, then you can shape -it and edit it down from there. +1263 +00:53:34,121 --> 00:53:36,041 +an outline, and then you can +shape it, and edit it down from -1169 -00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:41,221 -Bekah: Awesome. you so much for -being here with us today. This +1264 +00:53:36,041 --> 00:53:37,961 +there. -1170 -00:53:41,221 --> 00:53:43,171 -is +1265 +00:53:39,271 --> 00:53:42,000 +Bekah: Awesome. Thank you so +much for being here with us -1171 -00:53:43,257 --> 00:53:43,617 -Dan: Yeah. +1266 +00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,652 +today. This is really great -1172 +1267 00:53:43,652 --> 00:53:46,771 -Bekah: to hear you talk about -this and your journey. You have +to hear you talk about this. And +your journey, you have -1173 +1268 00:53:46,771 --> 00:53:49,592 -so many fascinating things, and -I'm really glad that we got to +so many fascinating things and +I'm- I'm really glad that we got -1174 +1269 00:53:49,592 --> 00:53:50,311 -hear them today. +to hear them today. -1175 +1270 00:53:50,621 --> 00:53:52,181 -Jessica: Yeah. Well, Thank you, +Jessica: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. -1176 +1271 00:53:52,516 --> 00:53:54,617 -Dan: Yeah. Thank you, Jessica. I -appreciate it. +Dan: Yeah. Thank you, Jessica. +We- we really appreciate it. -1177 +1272 00:53:55,411 --> 00:53:56,132 Bekah: Okay, bye. -1178 -00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,211 +1273 +00:53:56,851 --> 00:53:57,000 Jessica: Bye. -1179 +1274 +00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,000 +Dan: Bye. + +1275 00:54:01,023 --> 00:54:03,333 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1180 +1276 00:54:03,333 --> 00:54:06,853 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1181 +1277 00:54:06,873 --> 00:54:10,034 Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by Andy Bonjour at GoodDay -1182 +1278 00:54:10,054 --> 00:54:12,844 Communications. If you have questions or comments, you can -1183 +1279 00:54:12,844 --> 00:54:16,083 -hit us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at +hit us up on Twitter +@VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1184 +1280 00:54:16,083 --> 00:54:18,513 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1185 +1281 00:54:18,513 --> 00:54:20,943 for -1186 +1282 00:54:20,943 --> 00:54:23,284 our newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1187 +1283 00:54:23,284 --> 00:54:25,518 website at virtualcoffee.io. And -of course join us for our +of course, join us for our -1188 +1284 00:54:25,518 --> 00:54:27,752 Virtual -1189 +1285 00:54:27,753 --> 00:54:30,603 Coffee Chats every Tuesday at 9 -am Eastern and Thursday at - -1190 -00:54:30,603 --> 00:54:32,401 -12 pm Eastern Please subscribe -to our podcast and be +AM Eastern and Thursday at -1191 -00:54:32,401 --> 00:54:34,199 -sure to +1286 +00:54:30,603 --> 00:54:34,199 +12 PM Eastern. Please subscribe +to our podcast and be sure to -1192 +1287 00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:37,260 leave us a review. Thanks for -listening and we'll see you next +listening, and we'll see you -1193 +1288 00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:37,590 -week! \ No newline at end of file +next week! \ No newline at end of file